Amulet vs undead question..

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Amulet vs undead question..

Postby garhkal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:40 pm

OK, say your party has 3 clerics in it. One is a cleric of the god NODDY, who doesn't allow turning. One is a Nature priest, much akin to a druid, so by nature doesn't have turning, the third does turn.
During the game, the party acquires an amulet of turn undead, and say gives it to the nature priest.

BY the way the rules are wrote, each priest that can turn, gets one attempt to do so per batch of undead (so in a mixed zombie-skeleton group, they get one chance for the skeletons, and one for the zombies, even if their chance is successful).
So if say the druid using the amulet makes her successful turn chance, could then she toss the amulet to the OTHER cleric who's god doesn't allow turning, and allow HIM a chance to turn via the necklace? What if she failed?

Or is the amulet a one and done thing too??
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:15 am

It wouldn't work, per the rules/item description...

"The amulet must be worn at all times to remain effective. When it is not worn, it becomes inert and will remain so for the first seven days after it is put on."

The operative words are underlined.

So let's assume the druid found the amulet seven days ago, put it on and kept it on at all times. After that, the PCs encounter undead. During that encounter, the druid can turn them using the amulet. However, once the druid takes it off to throw to the other cleric, it is no longer being worn (it must be "worn at all times" to remain effective). So when he takes it off, it is not being worn and therefore becomes inert. It will be useless to the cleric to whom he tossed it, because that cleric must wear it for seven days before he can use it ("it will remain so [inert] for the first seven days after it is put on").
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby garhkal » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:37 am

hmm. Never saw that part of it's write up.. Must have just glossed over it.

Thanks for the correction..
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby garhkal » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:39 am

Just thought of a related q.. Could a druid even benefit from this item, since they are not supposed to be turning undead? What of those priests who do worship gods who don't grant turning of undead? Would using one of these amulets be seen as a violation of their ethos??
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby lanir » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:35 am

You seem to be doing turning different than how I read it. The read I had on it was each priest character capable of it can make one turning attempt per encounter. If the result isn't automatic, roll a d20 and compare to the chart. For a mixed group, compare the same d20 result to the different types. If successful, affect 2d6 undead starting with the lowest HD. If the d20 roll is too low to affect some type of undead present, that type is ignored.

As for violating ethos... That's really an extreme thing. If undead are sacred to a deity then sure, using this amulet would be against their ethos. Followers of Orcus might think it was blasphemous to destroy undead in this way. But a druid or other priest of a nature deity really just doesn't have that tool available. Their religion just doesn't deal with undead in any particular way, positive or negative. You may as well say they're violating their ethos by buying something at a shop because that's more the province of the commerce deity.
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:41 am

Garhkal wrote:

Just thought of a related q.. Could a druid even benefit from this item, since they are not supposed to be turning undead? What of those priests who do worship gods who don't grant turning of undead? Would using one of these amulets be seen as a violation of their ethos??


The item description in the DMG is silent on the matter of which class(es) may use it, except to say that the wearer is able to turn undead "like a cleric". So to me that would imply that any class can use it. It's the power of the amulet that is doing the turning, independent of the class of the wearer.

The PHB is also silent as to why a druid cannot turn undead, but if we look at the 1E DMG, it says:

"Due to their involvement with living, growing things, druids have no power to turn or control undead, demons, or devils."

Not the clearest explanation, admittedly. I take it to mean that the druid draws his power from the force of Nature, which is not "holy" in the sense that Nature is True Neutral, whereas clerics who can turn undead gain their power from gods of Good alignment who oppose undead, while evil clerics who can control undead gain their power from evil gods who align with undead. So the druid, being TN, does not have the force of Good to drive off undead or the force of Evil to control undead.

I've always argued that undead would be the most logical enemies of druids, being undead and therefore outside the cycle of birth, life, death, rebirth. They'd be considered an abomination. But I'll address that in the 1E forum because this brought up in my mind a major issue in the 1E rules.

In any case, I can't see it being a problem for druids to use the amulet to turn undead. If Nature (which is TN) would oppose the druid using the amulet, then why not also CN or LN characters whose gods would not be concerned with undead. Likewise, a LE character would be able to use the amulet to drive off evil undead using the amulet despite being evil himself. Absent any other instructions in the DMG, I'd say we can assume any character can use the amulet.
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:44 am

Lanir wrote:

As for violating ethos... That's really an extreme thing. If undead are sacred to a deity then sure, using this amulet would be against their ethos. Followers of Orcus might think it was blasphemous to destroy undead in this way. But a druid or other priest of a nature deity really just doesn't have that tool available. Their religion just doesn't deal with undead in any particular way, positive or negative. You may as well say they're violating their ethos by buying something at a shop because that's more the province of the commerce deity.


I'd agree, a priest of Orcus would probably incur the demon lord's wrath if he used the amulet to turn undead. It would be an insult towards Orcus. I agree on the druid point as well. Unless something specifically does or should be against a character's alignment or ethos, I think the character should be able to use an item.
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby garhkal » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:40 pm

So druids can use it, but need to check their ethos (which deity of nature they are worshiping since in 2e they are not just worshiping some nebulus force known as nature)..
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Re: Amulet vs undead question..

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:12 am

Even in 2E with the possible use of nature gods, I'd say the druid could use it. It's not that it's against the druid's ethos to destroy undead - in fact undead would be considered an abomination to a druid. It's just that he has no power over them. I can't see it going against their ethos to destroy undead.
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