Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell reversals?

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Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell reversals?

Postby RPG Dinosaur » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:32 am

I figure this must have covered at some point in the history of PADnD, maybe before I was even here, but we've gained new members so here goes:
So it was established on the 'Spells you've played wrong' thread and reinforced by the PH books themselves (because, in case you didn't read that thread, there is no mention of a saving throw in either the 1E or 2E version) that there is no save for the reverse spell of Bless: Curse.
Real simple, if a party of PC's you were DM'ing for started meleeing with a hostile band of humanoids with a Shaman who cast Curse, would you allow a player character Cleric to negate the effects by then casting Bless? If not, why?
It's too late for me to dive into the books about other similar spells, but can you think of any other reversible spells that you would allow to simply cancel each other out even steven?
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby garhkal » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:15 pm

Yes, just as long as the party members needing to benefit from the bless being cast, are not already engaged in melee. JUST like if they were going to benefit from the bless on it's own.
AND this has been a common tactic i have seen players use over the years.. Wait till the enemy shaman's pop bless on THEIR troops, then have your troops fall back (so are not engaged in melee,) then popp off a curse ON THEM to negate the bless.
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby RPG Dinosaur » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:02 am

garhkal wrote:Yes, just as long as the party members needing to benefit from the bless being cast, are not already engaged in melee. JUST like if they were going to benefit from the bless on it's own.

Right Right.

garhkal wrote:AND this has been a common tactic i have seen players use over the years.. Wait till the enemy shaman's pop bless on THEIR troops, then have your troops fall back (so are not engaged in melee,) then popp off a curse ON THEM to negate the bless.

So assuming that you were the DM at least once when you saw this before, did you have the second spell cast last the full six round duration or did the two spells just cancel out even steven? For example, using the scenario you mentioned and a shaman Blesses his troops and say it takes the players Cleric two rounds to fall back and get the Curse cast, there is a four round period where there will be no good or bad effects while the original spell runs it's course and the Curse is in effect at the same time, but once the Bless is expired do you have the Curse take effect for two rounds?
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:35 am

I'd allow a bless spell to automatically reverse a curse spell and vice versa. They would simply cancel each other out immediately, with no regard for time. Other spells I do that with would be cause fear/remove fear, stone to flesh/flesh to stone, etc.
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby garhkal » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:35 pm

RPG Dinosaur wrote:So assuming that you were the DM at least once when you saw this before, did you have the second spell cast last the full six round duration or did the two spells just cancel out even steven? For example, using the scenario you mentioned and a shaman Blesses his troops and say it takes the players Cleric two rounds to fall back and get the Curse cast, there is a four round period where there will be no good or bad effects while the original spell runs it's course and the Curse is in effect at the same time, but once the Bless is expired do you have the Curse take effect for two rounds?


Flat out neutralized it..
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby Cole » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:56 pm

garhkal wrote:Yes, just as long as the party members needing to benefit from the bless being cast, are not already engaged in melee. JUST like if they were going to benefit from the bless on it's own.
AND this has been a common tactic i have seen players use over the years.. Wait till the enemy shaman's pop bless on THEIR troops, then have your troops fall back (so are not engaged in melee,) then popp off a curse ON THEM to negate the bless.



Yup, same here. In all instances where a spell says "reversible" it means exactly that. One can cancel out the other and vise versa :)
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby garhkal » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:18 pm

Linked. Lets say gooody mc goodie goes off to fight the evil leader of a warband in mano-e-mano combat. So he gets a PfE cast on him. However the evil leader has his own PfG on him..
Do they neutralize each other?? or do they still work?
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Re: Can Bless/Curse cancel each other out?Other spell revers

Postby RPG Dinosaur » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:20 am

garhkal wrote:Linked. Lets say gooody mc goodie goes off to fight the evil leader of a warband in mano-e-mano combat. So he gets a PfE cast on him. However the evil leader has his own PfG on him..
Do they neutralize each other?? or do they still work?

In 1E, using this example of both the good and evil participants being men and not enchanted, conjurned or summoned creatures, I say that the protections and -2 to hit and +2 bonuses work for both men.
They added to the spell some for 2E, including this text: "This protection ends if the protected character makes a melee attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. So if we're talking 2E, I say the spells cancel each other out as both men try to attack each other.
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