Main Forum Index Register to Login Login to the Forum
Your #1 Source for Dungeons and Dragons
Delete all board cookiesFAQThe team
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:19 pm

Advanced search




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 750 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 46, 47, 48, 49, 50
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:12 pm 
Online
Initiate Immortal
Initiate Immortal
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:00 am
Posts: 11142
Location:
Washington, USA
You were gone for over two months. I was about to drop you altogether! Good thing you returned when you did. :D

Your character has remained in stasis this whole time. The rest of the game has moved on normally. DJHyland quit--evidently something I said or did upset him and he never came back. MGBevan was supposed to return in February, but...he never did. I think we can probably assume he won't be returning, either. So we're down to Haahque, Horizon, Tristen, Spyguy, Chris and yourself.


Top
  ProfileWWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:27 pm 
Offline
Baron
Baron
User avatar

Joined:
Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:54 pm
Posts: 2614
OK,
Pity about DJHyland. It doesn't characteristic for him to get upset as far as I can tell from knowing him on the Forum.

To expedite my "returning to business" can you please p.m. me a summary of what happened with the others? It is good I was separated from the rest of the group so it didn't interfere with the adventure. I just imagine the revolution of the mages put to hold for two real life months... :)

China was mainly business and returning to work is hell, especially since I might need travel more frequently right now, but the people themselves were charming. I wasn't in the most authentic place in China, I was in Shenzhen which is a region that became the new high-tech zone, not as polluted as other regions, and very influenced from Hong Kong. But it seems the people are very friendly, polite and caring about the others, so all in all it was very nice.


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:49 pm 
Online
Initiate Immortal
Initiate Immortal
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:00 am
Posts: 11142
Location:
Washington, USA
It also looks like Spyguy hasn't logged in almost two weeks. That's probably not a good sign.

As we've been sort of hemorrhaging players lately, I'm actually wondering how much longer this game will last before it falls apart.

Anyway, I figured that we could retcon an explanation for Tulbas being missing for so long once his adventure at the tower is done. Like, maybe he spent the last few weeks recovering from injuries. In any case, the main thing that you've missed is that the army threw a parade for Kendra, but it was really a trap to lure out the person who attacked Haahqae's show by unleashing a fire elemental in the city a week back. The plan worked, although Kendra was nearly killed. The Sirrion cleric, Delharn (Grubnick's mentor) was captured by four mercenaries--Burzan, Raena, Xyleena and Yvette. Basically all of the party's enemies teamed up to make their own party.

While escorting Delharn to the Temple of Takhisis to be interrogated, Grubnick launched an impromptu attack to free him. It almost worked, but Delharn got KO'd and recaptured and Grubnick wasn't able to escape the many baaz chasing him. His AC was high enough to avoid getting hit, mostly, but he couldn't out run them (they are twice as fast as he is). So he ran into the Happee Ohgr tavern (a goblin dive bar) and I think his plan was to try and convince the goblins that the baaz was turning on them. But he dumped CHA so that didn't work out too well. Grubnick tried to escape through the back, but the baaz suddenly stopped chasing him and vacated the building. This is because the Dragon Queen had called one of her dragons to torch the whole building and everyone in it. Grubnick just barely squeezed through a window before the entire building was vaporized, and everyone inside was instantly killed (taking over 100 points of damage from the dragon's breath weapon).

We'll be wrapping the chapter up pretty soon now. We're almost to page 30.


Top
  ProfileWWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:58 pm 
Offline
Baron
Baron
User avatar

Joined:
Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:54 pm
Posts: 2614
Wow! They burned everyone? Also the NPCs we came to know in the tavern? (I forgot the waitress name)
Sound like you had some action :)

Where should I post Tulbas adventure? On the same thread? I forgot the last actions. I remember we met the last apprentice (forgot her name), cast Sleep on her, tied and hide her, and now Tulbas debating between helping the first apprentice (forgot her name too) escape the building (going down) and help the masters against the revolution (going up). Unfortunately morally Tulbas will probably help the chick escape...


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:04 am 
Offline
Count
Count

Joined:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:58 pm
Posts: 4417
Shima is unconscious, being lugged about by the minotaur, having been trying to help him do a job that would get info on where the two thieves went that had the party's stuff.
Neither of them know about the return of non-evil clerics to the world.


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:36 pm 
Online
Initiate Immortal
Initiate Immortal
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:00 am
Posts: 11142
Location:
Washington, USA
I never gave names to any of the NPCs that patronize the Happee Ohgr, I don't think. I'm not sure what waitress you mean, either. There is the female bartender, so maybe you meant her? She was never named, though. Also, I'm not sure Tulbas ever went into the Ohgr or not.

Anyway, there is still 4 pages left on the current chapter, but Haahque and Tristen have stopped posting, which might mean they are finished--I'm not sure. And Spyguy is missing and Chris' character is unconscious, so...I'll probably just go ahead and wrap up the chapter soon anyway. It might be better to resume Tulbas' adventure in the next chapter then.

Your memory is pretty spot on, though, on where Tulbas left off.


Top
  ProfileWWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:13 pm 
Offline
Baron
Baron
User avatar

Joined:
Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:54 pm
Posts: 2614
OK. That makes sense. I'll wait for the next chapter.


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:38 am 
Offline
Royal Prince
Royal Prince
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:23 pm
Posts: 6583
Location:
somewhere in the aether
Grubnick is done for today


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:06 am 
Offline
Knight
Knight
User avatar

Joined:
Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:14 am
Posts: 1443
Location:
Toronto
Unless there's something interesting for Haahqae to do in the Tankard (nothing interesting was mentioned) I don't see anything left for him to do that won't get run him into trouble with curfew.

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:03 pm 
Online
Initiate Immortal
Initiate Immortal
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:00 am
Posts: 11142
Location:
Washington, USA
I didn't mention anything, because you stated Haahqae went straight to his room. So I took that to mean he didn't pay any attention to what was going on in the common room, and didn't care.

I suppose it doesn't matter. It looks like everyone else is done anyway.

I'll close the chapter. XP will go up later.

In the meantime, before we get to the time skip and what comes in between then and now, I think we should have a discussion about this game, about what we all expect from it, what we want from it, and so on, to make sure we're all on the same page. I've been hearing lots of complaints lately, and we keep losing players, and at this point I'm starting to wonder if this game will actually reach its natural end point or will fall apart before then. :(


Top
  ProfileWWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:49 pm 
Offline
Duke
Duke
User avatar

Joined:
Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:36 pm
Posts: 5031
Location:
Washington
I've been having fun with the game, so I don't really have any complaints.

I like the fact that it is hard to actually achieve the goals that Kendra's has. Plus, I think it should be hard to achieve the goals, and it makes sense that there are consequences to every action. I personally feel that it makes the players think more about how their characters should handle a situation.


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:58 am 
Offline
Knight
Knight
User avatar

Joined:
Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:14 am
Posts: 1443
Location:
Toronto
In the meantime, before we get to the time skip and what comes in between then and now, I think we should have a discussion about this game, about what we all expect from it, what we want from it, and so on, to make sure we're all on the same page. I've been hearing lots of complaints lately, and we keep losing players, and at this point I'm starting to wonder if this game will actually reach its natural end point or will fall apart before then.

I believe I've stated most of these points but:

What I want from this game is to have a better idea of what he can do to complete his goals.

So far in this game he's made almost no progresses -at all- on the goal he set out to do on day 1 of the campaign, which he set for himself during character creation and is a fairly large part of who he is and why he does what he does. And while I agree that this goal is rather lofty and shouldn't be completable even by someone twice our current level, he could have at least made some progress towards it, if small, by now. The only progress I can think of him making by now was his learning ancient history, which was an automatic grant on leveling up.

However, he's constantly being torn away from it by other things he considers important; such as being friendly/helpful (especially earlier in the camping); Impressing Ismene (mid campaign) or rescuing Ismene (after she was captured). While he was able to justify most of his acts up until now as potentially working towards his goal (and often failing miserably at this regard), after Ismene was captured he could not even do that. Now all his resources have to be rescuing her if he has even the slightest chance of pulling it off. Rescuing her is much more time-sensitive then his original goal after all.

So not only has he made nearly no progress on his primary goal he set out to do years ago when the campaign started; but now he has a new goal he considers more important that's preventing him from making any progress on his primary goal. This feels to me like he's making negative progress towards his primary goal instead of positive progress.

Which wouldn't be so bad, if I felt like he could resolve this Ismene incident in a reasonable span of time. And I'm trying to resolve it in everything I do; but I don't see any progress on this either. In his week off after last chapter I tried many different methods to acquire the information I needed to attempt a rescue, but not only did he not get nearly enough information to do so, the only clue I had of acquiring the information was to work with other players; so I tried to do that in the next chapter. Except that Kendra didn't want to get too involved for fear of losing her job, and Arulia had a grudge on him because he said no when she asked for money without any explaination, Grubnick he had no contact information for and the rest of the party he barely even knew because they haven't worked together at all.

So in this chapter I started with no idea of how to do anything useful, which was a rather low note to start a chapter on. I noticed Jaymes in the common room and decided that it was a long shot, but trying to put him together with Myriam would potentially generate ideas of how to rescue Ismene. It was better then anything other option I could think of at the time. This didn't appear to be going anywhere (as I expected, since I was looking to work with players for help), which is why I dropped that thread so quickly when actual players came along with a proposition that had a chance to actually make progress towards his goals. He could earn some money to go towards the expenses in his primary goal, while earning goodwill of other players; which roughly translates to resources to help rescue Ismene with... Until that plan fell apart with no additional money, the players he was hoping to work with either leaving or nearly getting themselves killed and getting their own super important task that could potentially draw them away from helping Haahqae (or maybe they can work together? If he even knows Grubnick is still alive...) and a group of his enemies getting stronger with more resources at their fingertips. As per usual I brainstormed a bunch more plans after that and executed the one which seemed most likely to help and least likely to have reprocussions for Haahqae, and now it sounds like his course of action has only made things worse for himself.... again.

Again, it feels like Haahqae isn't making any progress towards his goals. Again I'm lost on how to progress in a way that can make him have any progress towards his goals. Again I numerous different plans to further his goals, but none of them seem to pan out and things just seem to get worse for him via factors beyond his control. It feels like the goals Haahqae has set for himself are too difficult for him to complete, but he also can't drop them and find easier goals.

And he again is making more negative progress by getting another task (break up the 4 badguys), which feels like a much more level-appropriate challange for Haahqae, which if he let that distract him from Ismene would mean he's just getting more goals to do without making any progress towards the goals that he's already set. However, he won't work towards this goal now because:

With Haahqae's personality and temperament, I don't think he can reasonably handle the incarceration of Ismene, especially how it happened as he could blame himself for it. The effects of not making any progress on rescuing her for an extended period of time could only drive him insane, into despair, or turn him into a heartless killer. I was quite fond of the character Haahqae was before the occupation, and I'm not too keen on him having mental breakdowns.

So far what I'm going on to rescue Ismene is:
1) Myriam would be willing to help if Haahqae had a plan, but she's not willing to help come up with a plan.
2) The challange is too hard for Haahqae to solve alone, so he needs to enlist other people to do it.
3) He needs to find out where Ismene is and figure out a place to hide her which the army can't find.

To which he's lost because:
1) That's not much use to him in finding answers
2) He barely knows the other players so why would he entrust such confidential information to them? Except Kendra and Grubnik; one of which is working for the army and the other he's been told is dead. And does he even know those two that well? Why would he search out (Specifically) the other players to ask for help besides meta-game knowledge?
3) He has very little to go on to find out where she is. (Pretty much only what Kendra said, all his other attempts to gather info failed). And he doesn't even know how to go about finding a place to hide afterwards; I'm pretty sure outside the city is offlimits in this game and the city sounds like it's on pretty strict lockdown by the army. The only good place he found was soon after destroyed (the Belzorite hideout) and is a location known to his enemies.

So that leaves me puzzling as to how to progress my goals again. I have ideas still; I might run out of ideas but I always try to think up more; however I would like to see some of his ideas actually pan out for a change, as opposed to going from disastrous failure to new problem that needs to be solved to new disastrous failure. What I would like in the game is more progress towards his goals. While a bad plan should fail, I'm wondering if all my plans thus far were bad plans, and if so how to make better plans that can make progress towards his goals.

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:42 pm 
Online
Initiate Immortal
Initiate Immortal
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:00 am
Posts: 11142
Location:
Washington, USA
Haahque wrote:
So far in this game he's made almost no progresses -at all- on the goal he set out to do on day 1 of the campaign...he could have at least made some progress towards it, if small, by now.

How do you measure the 'progress' on this goal? What exactly did you originally foresee he would have accomplished by now, by third level? Knowing that would help put us both on the same page.

Haahque wrote:
However, he's constantly being torn away from it by other things he considers important...

I thought you were doing that on purpose, to be honest. That you were roleplaying his 3 WIS (constantly getting distracted, not thinking things through or considering the consequences of his actions, etc.).

Haahque wrote:
He barely knows the other players so why would he entrust such confidential information to them?

That's never stopped him before. He hired Yvette and Xyleena without even knowing their names or what they were capable of.

Haahque wrote:
...however I would like to see some of his ideas actually pan out for a change, as opposed to going from disastrous failure to new problem that needs to be solved to new disastrous failure.

To be clear, are you implying that I am deliberately scheming to make you fail in everything you do, and you are asking me to lighten up a bit? Because I can assure you that I am not doing anything of the kind.

Actually, that leads me to ask a broader question on that subject. All of these complaints about Haahqae's failures--are you blaming yourself as his player, the character (for his crippling WIS score and overall behavior) or me, the DM?

Haahque wrote:
I'm wondering if all my plans thus far were bad plans, and if so how to make better plans that can make progress towards his goals.

I'll be honest with you. A lot of your plans...are downright suicidal. Your plan to try and break into the mageware shop, for instance, had me very worried. Because the odds of you tripping a magical trap and being vaporized on the spot (even at full health your character only has 12 HP) were insanely high. That you were trying that not during the game itself, but during the downtime only had me more nervous. I kept imagining how it would feel to tell a player that they needed to roll up a new character because they died off-screen during a time skip. (Same deal when you wanted to try sneaking into the prefect's mansion while invisible and I kept dropping massive hints that the dragon would see you if you tried, because I didn't want your character to die during the downtime).

Now I recognize that this game is bleak and very difficult. That was the intention from the beginning. I wanted to explore what life would be like under the cruel thumb of the Dragonarmy during Haven's occupation. But I'll point out again, while Haahqae is upset that he can't earn enough coin to build a secret magic lab, there are other PCs who are just trying to scrape together enough coin to not starve to death. He's made a lot of mistakes, but he is by far the most proactive PC. He's had far more success than a lot of the others as a result. He doesn't sit around waiting for stuff to happen or for opportunities to drop into his lap. He goes out and makes them himself.

There are consequences, though, as always. Haahqae is at a crossroads of sorts. All he cared about was getting money for his own agenda. He succeeded in that, too! But Ismene paid the price. Now he's conflicted, right? He got what he wanted, but he hurt someone else in the process. Now he has to choose. What's more important to him? I would have thought that would be a great roleplaying opportunity. Instead, you seem to have taken it as an unfair failure being inflicted upon you.

And that's what I mean, about maybe we're not on the same page. Why Horizon is the only one enjoying this game. Because she thinks a lot like I do on these matters. Remember what happened to Tulbas? He must now serve the man who murdered his beloved uncle in cold blood. I remember Horizon expressed jealousy that something so cool got to happen to BishGada's character.

And maybe that's where our wires are getting crossed. I didn't see Ismene's capture as a punishment on you, I saw it as an incredible roleplaying opportunity for you, as a player, to struggle with. I guess I assumed you would see it the same way, but perhaps not.

Same deal with what happened to Gregeddin. How would he feel if he knew his actions caused other people to suffer, as well? Innocents, at that! Or the whole Delharn thing. I introduced him as a fanatic to contrast against Grubnick, who is far more moderate (Grubnick wants to avoid hurting people, for instance, while Delharn doesn't care). Now Delharn's fanaticism has gotten him captured. Will Grubnick become a fanatic himself now? Or will he become even more cautious after seeing the full power of the army?

That's what I meant when I said this game was about exploring life under the occupation. It isn't easy, and it forces the PCs to make difficult choices. Do they stick to their beliefs, do they sell out, do they resist even though the odds are horribly stacked against them?

I guess to put it in a much simpler way, you seem focused on reaching the destination, while I'm more interested in the journey itself. Maybe that's where the wires are getting crossed between DM and players.


Top
  ProfileWWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:25 am 
Offline
Royal Prince
Royal Prince
User avatar

Joined:
Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:23 pm
Posts: 6583
Location:
somewhere in the aether
I have been enjoying the game and the layers of complexity (i know that takes a lot of effort and forethought on your part, and i appreciate it). The difficulty doesn't bother me, and the realism of the tough situations helps me get into character easily. I do admit it is a little tougher to know where to go or how to proceed in a game like this, but it doesn't bother me much and i just chalk that up to 'as advertised'. I realize part of my own issue has been a lower degree of Grubnick's proactivity in seeking things out (and ultimately my own). I am enjoying getting to know Grubnick's character better, and honestly the only way to do that is to have him in really tough situations; that's when character growth happens.


Top
  Profile 
 
 Post subject: Re: WotL OOC Thread III
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:09 am 
Offline
Knight
Knight
User avatar

Joined:
Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:14 am
Posts: 1443
Location:
Toronto
JadedDM wrote:
Haahque wrote:
So far in this game he's made almost no progresses -at all- on the goal he set out to do on day 1 of the campaign...he could have at least made some progress towards it, if small, by now.

How do you measure the 'progress' on this goal? What exactly did you originally foresee he would have accomplished by now, by third level? Knowing that would help put us both on the same page.


Looking back, Haahqae has made a little more progress then I thought, in that he's got some leads on learning about some people who he should research (Beldinas, Balzor, Fistandantilus, Takhisis); and that he has had some opportunity to research Balzor and Takhsis a little further, although he hasn't had much opportunity to glean useful information from such research.

I however feel like he could have progressed a bit further by now. I've sent you a list that I wrote out at character creation for a more step-by-step process to this goal, with goals which could be achievable at lower levels. The first 3 on the list I think he could have made progress on; even if he hasn't completed them by 3rd/4th level.

Step 1 -> Learn ancient languages.
Step 2 -> uncover secrets of the ancients to become powerful.
*He could have; by now, at least encountered some ancient languages so that he can begin studying them.
Step 3 -> Learn how to create new spells
*I realize I was wildly off the mark on how affluent the characters in this campaign were going to be, but is developing his own lab the only way he could do this? The only other apparent way is to use Magnus's lab, which is much more dangerous and shrouded in time-shift purgatory.

JadedDM wrote:
Haahque wrote:
However, he's constantly being torn away from it by other things he considers important...

I thought you were doing that on purpose, to be honest. That you were roleplaying his 3 WIS (constantly getting distracted, not thinking things through or considering the consequences of his actions, etc.).


Part of Haahqae's original character was that he was fairly prone to meet new people and try out new things, but he would always try and make them work towards his life quest indirectly or directly. Since I have shifted his efforts to being much more focused and on Ismene's rescue. Everything he has done since she was captured has been to free her.

Likewise I started him out with not thinking things through or considering consequences; but as that started to get him into worse and worse situations (betrayed, stolen from, abandoned, etc) He's been considering the consequences much more then before. That is why he/I freaked out about the show being attacked (huge potential consequences there!); why he went out of his way to cover up his disappearance from the bathroom in the dragon heist (swarm of spiders, escaping to outside the tower while in sight (or so I thought), returning to the tower after the theft was done to smooth things over and make sure nothing was suspected) and why he didn't break invisibility in the latest combat where Grubnick attacked a patrol of soldiers single-handed (Certainly doing so would paint a target on him by the army and/or the church).

JadedDM wrote:
Haahque wrote:
He barely knows the other players so why would he entrust such confidential information to them?

That's never stopped him before. He hired Yvette and Xyleena without even knowing their names or what they were capable of.


It has stopped him before; This goes back to the recent trend of him considering the consequences in response to being punished for not doing so earlier. The betrayal by the 4 minor villains is the reason why Haahqae stopped recruiting people for his adventures since then. For the show he only got help from Grubnick (when he figured out he absolutely needed someone to help, and had worked with Grubnick recently) and Tulbas (who is one of the few people Haahqae still trusts), although Tulbas didn't end up helping much. For the heist he didn't hire anyone because he didn't trust anyone with it; he didn't even tell Ismene!

Meanwhile he hired Yvette and Xyleena without much information on them for a job which was legal and sanctioned by the state in power. If they had refused the job and gone to the authorities; it wouldn't have mattered much. He would be hiring people now for a job which is highly illegal so it only makes sense to get more information on their trustworthiness and hire from only people he trusts. Again this loops back to him being more cautious and considering the consequences.

JadedDM wrote:
Haahque wrote:
...however I would like to see some of his ideas actually pan out for a change, as opposed to going from disastrous failure to new problem that needs to be solved to new disastrous failure.

To be clear, are you implying that I am deliberately scheming to make you fail in everything you do, and you are asking me to lighten up a bit? Because I can assure you that I am not doing anything of the kind.

Actually, that leads me to ask a broader question on that subject. All of these complaints about Haahqae's failures--are you blaming yourself as his player, the character (for his crippling WIS score and overall behavior) or me, the DM?


I don't even know. I don't think you're scheming against Haahqae to make whatever he does fail, but I am questioning if the tasks set before him are of a reasonable difficulty for a character of his power and a player of my skill level. I don't know if this means the tasks are too hard or if I'm playing very poorly or if it's just random happenstance that's been preventing him from having success (pretty much since the giant), or perhaps a combination of all three.

JadedDM wrote:
Haahque wrote:
I'm wondering if all my plans thus far were bad plans, and if so how to make better plans that can make progress towards his goals.

I'll be honest with you. A lot of your plans...are downright suicidal. Your plan to try and break into the mageware shop, for instance, had me very worried. Because the odds of you tripping a magical trap and being vaporized on the spot (even at full health your character only has 12 HP) were insanely high. That you were trying that not during the game itself, but during the downtime only had me more nervous. I kept imagining how it would feel to tell a player that they needed to roll up a new character because they died off-screen during a time skip. (Same deal when you wanted to try sneaking into the prefect's mansion while invisible and I kept dropping massive hints that the dragon would see you if you tried, because I didn't want your character to die during the downtime).


These two plans go very much with how hard Haahqae is working towards trying to free Ismene. He has less care for his own well being while she is in peril and I realize this. The other dangerous plan I can think of (the heist) was a calculated risk I was willing to take to end Haahqae's streak of failures (sort of?). He's growing more desperate and taking more risks as a result. While I understand the desire for downtime, I don't feel like it's appropriate for Haahqae's specific circumstances right now; he would not have downtime at a time like this! And that's a large part of why he tried to do so much (even dangerous things) during the last downtime. The other part is because I wanted to have something interesting to do when the chapter started. I think I would handle a character death better then you think I would handle a character death.

JadedDM wrote:
Now I recognize that this game is bleak and very difficult. That was the intention from the beginning. I wanted to explore what life would be like under the cruel thumb of the Dragonarmy during Haven's occupation. But I'll point out again, while Haahqae is upset that he can't earn enough coin to build a secret magic lab, there are other PCs who are just trying to scrape together enough coin to not starve to death. He's made a lot of mistakes, but he is by far the most proactive PC. He's had far more success than a lot of the others as a result. He doesn't sit around waiting for stuff to happen or for opportunities to drop into his lap. He goes out and makes them himself.


It might help if you list some successes, because I sort of feel like he's just slowly bleeding out resources as the situation constantly gets harder for him with very little, if any, success.

JadedDM wrote:
There are consequences, though, as always. Haahqae is at a crossroads of sorts. All he cared about was getting money for his own agenda. He succeeded in that, too! But Ismene paid the price. Now he's conflicted, right? He got what he wanted, but he hurt someone else in the process. Now he has to choose. What's more important to him? I would have thought that would be a great roleplaying opportunity. Instead, you seem to have taken it as an unfair failure being inflicted upon you.


I feel like he was at this crossroads a couple chapters back; he was striving towards money for two purposes before he pulled off the heist. He wanted money to set up a secret magic lab and he wanted money to get a familiar to impress Ismene*. Each of which cost about as much money as he stole individually; so he had to choose between them when he got the money. As he chose the familiar; it indicates that he chose to progress his relationship with Ismene first (with the plan to get back to that life quest later). It was (and is) unclear of if he'll be able to aquire such a windfall again, and certainly even if he does, it will not be easy, meaning that decision was not an easy one to make (it wasn't). However, after he chose Ismene, she disappeared before he could even talk to her. A large part of feeling like having Ismene captured as a failure may come from that he chose Ismene over furthering his own goals, and that the venture was not a success in that it caused more problems to this effect then it solved. If an adventure in which he meticulously planned and overcame many dangerous obstacles to pull out an astounding success that was supposed to open up new opportunities to bring him closer to Ismene resulted in more problems then it solved; then it's rather disheartening; as if it doesn't matter what odds he overcomes; things are just going to get worse. Certainly not the result I was hoping for after a string of previous failures when I thought I had a victory for once.

JadedDM wrote:
And that's what I mean, about maybe we're not on the same page. Why Horizon is the only one enjoying this game. Because she thinks a lot like I do on these matters. Remember what happened to Tulbas? He must now serve the man who murdered his beloved uncle in cold blood. I remember Horizon expressed jealousy that something so cool got to happen to BishGada's character.

And maybe that's where our wires are getting crossed. I didn't see Ismene's capture as a punishment on you, I saw it as an incredible roleplaying opportunity for you, as a player, to struggle with. I guess I assumed you would see it the same way, but perhaps not.


I'll agree that it was a roleplaying opportunity; and I hope I did it justice, especially in my first post in the chapter. However it is not my hope to roleplay it to the point where it drives Haahqae insane, suicidal or into depression. And this, compounded on the previous encounters make me wonder if I am roleplaying Haahqae well.

If even well planned and successful ventures result in spectacular failure; certainly if I roleplayed Haahqae to his 3 wisdom for much longer his life will fall apart or he'll end up before very long. Although you aren't trying to kill him, it feels like going into something like scouting out the prefect's manor without a plan would certainly have a high chance of him being burned to a crisp. However, with 3 wisdom he should be too foolish to consider the consequences right? I'm feeling more and more pigeonholed into playing Haahqae as a calm, meticulous planner who doesn't trust anyone and has to plan every little detail out before he does anything, which is the opposite of how I feel his character should be by his backstory/charactersheet/introductory chapters, but very much the result of him learning from his failures. But should he even be allowed to learn from his failures with such a low wisdom? Is that character development or bad roleplaying portraying my character poorly? Should I go back to roleplaying Haahqae as a foolish carefree gnome who just wishes to crack a joke, help others and persue his life quest without regards to the team composition or lasting implications before doing a mission? Would that be staying true to his character or ignoring his character development?

JadedDM wrote:
Same deal with what happened to Gregeddin. How would he feel if he knew his actions caused other people to suffer, as well? Innocents, at that! Or the whole Delharn thing. I introduced him as a fanatic to contrast against Grubnick, who is far more moderate (Grubnick wants to avoid hurting people, for instance, while Delharn doesn't care). Now Delharn's fanaticism has gotten him captured. Will Grubnick become a fanatic himself now? Or will he become even more cautious after seeing the full power of the army?

That's what I meant when I said this game was about exploring life under the occupation. It isn't easy, and it forces the PCs to make difficult choices. Do they stick to their beliefs, do they sell out, do they resist even though the odds are horribly stacked against them?

I guess to put it in a much simpler way, you seem focused on reaching the destination, while I'm more interested in the journey itself. Maybe that's where the wires are getting crossed between DM and players.


As I mentioned before I had a false impression of the campaign when I started it, it was "Some guy's going to run a play by post campaign and I'm joining, do you want to join too?" Sort of thing, I must have glossed over the details of it being a dark campaign with significantly more failure and hardship then success and accomplishment. Those false impressions were only reinforced when it started out like a typical campaign with readily available quests, lots of early loot and relatively easy XP.

I'm trying to adjust to the campaign more as it is, since it's interesting and well run, but I feel like my character was ill suited for such a campaign on creation (So many plans and goals thought up for him, short term medium term and long term that feel like they can never come to pass; Goals that I planned for him as easy progression for him over the summer have been put on hold years down the line and appear to be less possible now then ever before, and he's a foolish character in a grim world where fools are steeping stones for people with actual power...).

However I am struggling with the feeling that Haahqae can't seem to get anything done no matter how hard he tries, and struggling to play him when I feel his best actions in character could be counter-fun for other players and/or completely against his character sheet and personality.

On the flip side, I saw summoning a familiar as a great role-playing opportunity. There was a creature where I could converse with at any time and confide secrets in, giving endless roleplay opportunities between Haahqae, Miracle, Ismene and Arcane; however this didn't seem to be as fleshed out as I had hoped. With this one I'm not sure if you expect me to take the lead on speaking for her and her actions or if you want to use her as a new opportunity to have a character interact with Haahqae and react to him with a unique new perspective from a dm-player sort of arrangement.

The journey is important; but I tend to consider the journey as a collection of adventures that pass or fail to further or accomplish minor players goals eventually working towards a major goal (or two); in a typical campaign I expect there to be more successful adventures/challenges then failures, although in one with a setting like this I can accept that there may be more failures then success. My problem here comes in that I'm feeling currently that I'm having no successes and that progress towards goals feels like it's going the wrong way (making negative progress) more often then not.

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici


Top
  Profile 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 750 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 46, 47, 48, 49, 50

Advanced search


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group