Lord Torath (Private thread) Labyrinth of Madness

[TristenC]

Hmmm.. yeah I think we can classify that as Hide armor, which he would be eligible to wear.

I'll just take the simple approach and say (10-1)k gp/(16-1)(AC options) = 0.6 per 1k gp above 1k
so AC 8 costs 1k gp
AC 7 costs 1.6k gp, etc

so 2.8k gp would get you AC 5 dragon hide armor
3.4k gp would get AC 4 Dragon Hide armor.

It would behave like hide, but weigh 25 lbs

[Lord Torath]

Axid (Strius) - Male Dwarven Psionicist (LG? NG?)
Ke'Sha (BishGada) - Male Halfling death priest - necromancer (CE?)
--Gur - Quasit Familiar
Jagrinder (Nocturno) - Male Tusked elf cleric/mage (12/12) (CG)

Allikhain (NPC) - Female Human Necromancer (wizard) 15 - Undead Hunter (??)
--Binky - Quasit familiar of Allikhain
Landro (NPC) - Male Firbolg Fighter - Neutral
--Two-handed sword
Jack o' Shadows (NPC-Nocturno) - Male Human Thief 19 (CG)

Lena "Angel" Gallus (NPC) Female Half-Elf Paladin (14) LG - Stays in 'camp'.




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Okay, I'll have to think about dragonscale armor. That's the same pricing scale I came up with myself, though. Straight-forward linear interpolation for the win! But it's a good bit more pricey than even 10x Hide armor for only 1 or 2 points improvement in AC. Plus it's heavier, and at my current strength, every pound counts.

Have you had a chance to go back and look at/ponder (dare I say meditate upon?) the meditation stuff?

I'd still like to meditate to improve Receptacle. I'd also like to do the meditation for self-improvement. Yes, it's something only psionicists can do, but the same thing goes for fighters and weapon specialization. And it only affects my psionic power scores and PSPs, nothing else. No bonus hit points, no extra languages/NWPs, no spell immunities, only improved psionic power scores and PSPs.

What do you think of the idea of giving us (the psionicists) a set amount of 'backstory' time we can spend on meditation?

[TristenC]

I think researching spells and things is a bit more of an apt comparison vs specialization or anything related to fighters. That said, spell research wasn't offered to the players at the beginning of the game either. I think we'll have to skip any individual power improvements.

As for the receptacle... I suppose it's a little different since the rules for that only involve the use of one or two disciplines and not a lot of external research or resources I think I can allow that. (we did have a necromancer starting with some undead minions so kind of similar prep-like element).
So yes, he can start with an empowered receptacle able to hold his potential x level( much more than he has available in a day) and we can say he currently has stored up to his daily max (which is the most he can store, from the ability description).

So I think rather than a set amount of down time for attempts etc (which would involve a bunch of rolls and there is the whole High Science thing) I'll just say you can spend 2 points for the Psi self improvement (wis, int or con) but cannot raise any of them above 18 prior to the bonuses from magic items etc

[Lord Torath]

As for the receptacle... I suppose it's a little different since the rules for that only involve the use of one or two disciplines and not a lot of external research or resources I think I can allow that. (we did have a necromancer starting with some undead minions so kind of similar prep-like element).
So yes, he can start with an empowered receptacle able to hold his potential x level( much more than he has available in a day) and we can say he currently has stored up to his daily max (which is the most he can store, from the ability description).

There are a few other things I'd like to empower:
Empowered Receptacle on ankle band (made by Steve) (260/560 PSPs) - I will need to be 36th level before I can fill this receptacle.
Dimension Blade and Wormhole on Dagger of Throwing
Adrenalin Control and Cell Adjustment on armband (made by Steve)
Energy Containment on Blue Dragonhide Armor (AC:4) - Yeah, I think I will go with the dragonhide
Truthear on mundane ring (made by Steve)
Dimensional Screen on a different armband (made by Steve)

My intent on putting Wormhole on the dagger is that after I throw it, it will open a wormhole back to me and I can reach through and grab it. Sound reasonable?

...I'll just say you can spend 2 points for the Psi self improvement (wis, int or con) but cannot raise any of them above 18 prior to the bonuses from magic items etc

Where'd the 18 limit come from? It's not listed anywhere in the meditation rules I can see. Just a limit of not more than once every other level and no more than three advances per ability score. Oh well. Since I only have two of them, I probably wouldn't boost Wisdom anyway.

I should have Steve's completed character sheet ready in the next day or so.

I assume I'll be joining the party the next time they return to the surface?

[Lord Torath]

Here's my proposed equipment list:

Edit: The formatting went all wonky here. Let me try again.



I'm just guessing at the cost of the jewelry making kit. If you feel 100 gp is too little, let me know and I'll adjust.

[TristenC]

There are a few other things I'd like to empower:
Empowered Receptacle on ankle band (made by Steve) (260/560 PSPs) - I will need to be 36th level before I can fill this receptacle.
Dimension Blade and Wormhole on Dagger of Throwing
Adrenalin Control and Cell Adjustment on armband (made by Steve)
Energy Containment on Blue Dragonhide Armor (AC:4) - Yeah, I think I will go with the dragonhide
Truthear on mundane ring (made by Steve)
Dimensional Screen on a different armband (made by Steve)

My intent on putting Wormhole on the dagger is that after I throw it, it will open a wormhole back to me and I can reach through and grab it. Sound reasonable?

I get what you are aiming at re the dagger, but the Will and the Way does mention it has to be the same person that Psionically empower and Enchants the Magic item. Since steve isn't able to do both himself. The rest looks good.

[Excerpt']
"Empower: It is possible to magically enchant a psionically empowered item. The item's creator must perform both actions, so a dual or multi-classed psionicist mage (or cleric) of at least 10th level/12th level is needed to do this. "

...I'll just say you can spend 2 points for the Psi self improvement (wis, int or con) but cannot raise any of them above 18 prior to the bonuses from magic items etc

Where'd the 18 limit come from? It's not listed anywhere in the meditation rules I can see. Just a limit of not more than once every other level and no more than three advances per ability score. Oh well. Since I only have two of them, I probably wouldn't boost Wisdom anyway.

Hmm... i thought it was in that same section of WatW where it described the process but I don't see it now. Chalk that one up to my reading comprehension suffering while at work

I should have Steve's completed character sheet ready in the next day or so.

I assume I'll be joining the party the next time they return to the surface?

Yeah, either when they next return to the surface or when they stop to rest for the night (if they choose to do so in the dungeon I have an idea how to make it work)

Equipment list looks good

[Lord Torath]

My intent on putting Wormhole on the dagger is that after I throw it, it will open a wormhole back to me and I can reach through and grab it. Sound reasonable?

I get what you are aiming at re the dagger, but the Will and the Way does mention it has to be the same person that Psionically empower and Enchants the Magic item. Since steve isn't able to do both himself. The rest looks good.

"Empower: It is possible to magically enchant a psionically empowered item. The item's creator must perform both actions, so a dual or multi-classed psionicist mage (or cleric) of at least 10th level/12th level is needed to do this. "

The Will and the Way's commentary is wrong here. If you read the Empower description, there are only two requirements for an item to be empowered:

1. It must be better than normal quality, worth at least 2.5 to 5 times normal cost
2. It must have been finished within 48 hours of the time the empowering process is started.

Nowhere is there a requirement that the psionicist must have made the item himself.

1. The dagger is obviously of superior quality.
2. The 48 hour requirement can be met in a couple of ways: Steve's background mentions that he mounted a gemstone on the dagger himself, the manufacture of item could be considered to have been completed at that point. Alternatively, finishing the gem and mounting it finishes the gem, and Steve can then empower it before or after mounting it on the dagger.

Equipment list looks good

Sweet! I'll update my character sheet!

[TristenC]

I think the distinction being made is adding a Psionic power (via the Empower ability) to an item vs adding it to an Already Magical item and/or Enchanting with Magic an existing Psionic item.

Since steve lacks the ability to create a dagger of throwing (no wizard or priest ability to create a magical item) he cannot have both created it and Empowered it as the WatW describes since the Dagger of Trowing effect is not one thaf can be crated by Psionics alone

[Lord Torath]

I disagree. There's absolutely nothing in the Empower description that even hints at that. This is L. Richard Baker III not reading the power carefully before writing commentary about it, and good ol' Bill Slavicsek (Destroyer of Dark Sun) not bothering to check. The commentary even says that if one process fails, the other still takes effect, telling you that the two processes are completely unrelated, which means that the wording of Empower applies to the psionic process, while Enchant an Item and its requirements apply to the magic portion.

But I'll go with your decision.

In that case, Steve will empower a gem with those abilities and then mount it on the dagger using his Artistic Ability - Jewelry.

Eh, I'm going to pass on the Truthear ring. Steve'll just activate that one himself when he needs it.

[TristenC]

Even if it is a matter of his misinterpretation, for Steve to be able to Empower it he would have to obtain the item within 48 hrs of it's creation.

However we can call this one a moot point I suppose. I'll accept the empowered gem worked into the dagger.

I am still a little confused about stuff like this with Empower though. I'm going to reread some of this stuff in the next few days (busy weekend coming) but it seems like
-empowering an item with a Science gives it 12 psp
-empowering an item with a devotion gives it 8
-the total to use the power (base wormhole usage is 24 psp) is higher than the current amount for the dagger (20, although with the new workaround i'm not sure dimensional blade will apply to the gem. But later for that after i do some reading)
>I think this will mean steve will need to increase thw psps the gem has in some way.

if recepticle is used for the Increase I think the
"No matter how many receptacles he has, a psionicist can never store more PSPs than his maximum total"
case will apply and require balancing the total between this and the other receptacle

[Lord Torath]

Psionic items have their own PSP reserves, and if you have the Receptacle power, in addition to the PSPs they get from each devotion and science they know, they can also get PSPs equal to the creator's inherent potential - aka 1st level PSP total.
Here's the bit from The Will and the Way: https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Using_Ps ... ems_(WatW)

Psionic items can be used by anyone, not just psionicists. They can even activate their powers on their own, without input from their user.

That section also says that if the item has a power with a range of touch or zero, it must physically touch its target or subject. Since the gem is directly touching the dagger, it can use Dimension Blade on the dagger.

[TristenC]

Ok, so that's basically how I was understanding most of it. So the part at the end, "no matter how many receptacles..." etc and so on, only apply to the receptacle use of the power; meaning that the total current stored value of all of his receptacles must add up to his current max or less.

Back to the dagger in question: does that not mean that with the two powers listed that totals the 20 psp (from the dagger) but in order to use the Wormhole ability (24 psp cost) either it will need another power added (to increase the item's own psp limit) or it would need to become a receptacle and have some psp stored in it by Steve to have enough to even use the wormhole ability.

[Lord Torath]

If you know the Receptacle power when you Empower the items, in addition to the PSPs they get from each devotion and science they know, they can also get PSPs equal to the creator's inherent potential - aka 1st level PSP total.
Here's the relevant bit from The Will and the Way: https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Using_Ps ... ems_(WatW)
(end of the second paragraph)

Those PSPs from knowing the receptacle power belong to the item and can only be used by the item. I can't tap into them to use a power myself. Knowing Receptacle just means I know how to increase the item's store of power, sort of like giving it its own receptacle.

[Lord Torath]

Here's another question: If I gave the dagger (okay, the gem in the dagger) Dimensional Door and had it open up a portal next to Steve, what would be the effects of his reaching through to grab the dagger?

Dimensional Door is "disorienting". "People who shove only an arm through a portal suffer intense pain." Descriptive, but doesn't list an in-game mechanic to resolve.

[TristenC]

Ok, I see it now:
"The Psionicist can implant a number of extra PSPs equal to his 1st-level total by augmenting the device this way." so that would be necessary for the gem on the dagger in order to use wormhole, because the wormhole power requires more than it currently has in PSPs with the one Discipline and one Science

Dimensional door is clearly not meant for only going partially through, and I'm really not quite convinced one could just stick an arm in and have only the arm come out the other side to interact with things since all versions I have been able to find (previous editions, magic versions and the psi version) discuss it functioning via passage through an alternate dimension where space and time move differently. For a being still connected to said body-part in the prime could it even reach? What distance? Especially the phrases "motion greatly accelerated" ... "a very tiny bit of time does elapse" lead me to believe the intent is that one enters fully the other dimension, travels some distance (probably short but still I would think longer than the length of an arm) at great speed through the other 'side' of the door. There are no mentions of partially entering and interacting with anything through the other side explicitly in any version I can find.

In the same vein, there are comments about throw/firing ranged weapons through, but nothing about melee weapons. Could a melee weapon even reach? If one could simply reach partly to the other side why couldn't they stab through a doorway? I feel like that opens up a huge can of worms. I'll have to think on that more, but I'm leaning away from this use being practical.

At the very least I would say shoving any part of the body through to interact and return would result in the "Dazed and cannot attack or move for one round" would apply.