DoD OOC

[HorizonsDream]

Right now, your character is a better thief in every way, but I figure once I gain some levels and such my character will get better.

Thanks for letting me know what you planned for her though. I figured we didn't need to step on each others toes if we were thinking on playing the same type of thief.

[Faeryl Nhiikira]

Right now, your character is a better thief in every way, but I figure once I gain some levels and such my character will get better.

Thanks for letting me know what you planned for her though. I figured we didn't need to step on each others toes if we were thinking on playing the same type of thief.

My main thing is probably going to continue to be Lockpicking and Trapfinding/Disarming, especially since my character is a professional locksmith to begin with. (At least as far as a backstory is concerned.)

[HorizonsDream]

Sounds good! Thanks.

I also have it that while my character is being built as a scout/pick pocket, that she is also being built as an information gatherer too. I figured Reading Lips and Disguise would help with that.

[MichaelFTrevino]

Hello all. I am another player new to DnD 2e, (but not to PnPRPGs) who will be joining you. Caelen Ebonstride will join y'all shortly. I'm gonna hammer a few details out with da boss but here are his stat rolls.
STR 12, DEX 11, CON 10, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 15
As you can plainly see, I just barely met the minimums for the Druid class. So yay!! Caelen is a Druid. Dumb as a bag of hair but still a Druid.

[NoTrammeling]

Welcome Michael!

The fact that your icon is from the Gunslinger bodes well ^^ I'll be happy to speak to you about your char at any time just let me know. I check the forum regularly (probably too regularly while at work >_>), and I'm on YIM sometimes too (like right now).

Also a few of you may be starting to wonder why we've got 7 characters rolled up (with Stik's on the way to make when the module is for 6 players max. I plan to start you all out together, but then the party will probably split into manageable groups. That way the pace of the game can be good, and you can fall in line with new people from time to time ^^ Of course if people drop out then we'll still have a healthy number and can fall back to one party.

[JadedDM]

Sure, thieves aren't supposed to be hit in the first place, but how does something like studded leather restrict you so much that you take a -30% to ALL skills? Studded leather is just regular leather armor with metal studs sewn in.

Studded leather armor doesn't incur a -30% to all skills, just pick pocketing and climbing walls. Move Silently and Hide in Shadows only take a -20% penalty, while Open Locks, Find/Remove Traps, and Detect Noise only suffer a -10% penalty.

Also, studded leather isn't just leather with metal studs in it. For one thing, it weighs 10 pounds more, and the heavier your armor, the more it effects thief skills. But aside from that, the two are made differently as well. Leather armor is boiled and hardened, for instance, while studded leather is not.

Caelen is a Druid. Dumb as a bag of hair but still a Druid.

Actually, an INT of 8 is just 'average' in 2nd Edition. He's no Rhodes Scholar, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he was dumb.

By the way, did Stik drop out? Otherwise, doesn't this bring us up to 7 players?

[Faeryl Nhiikira]

Sure, thieves aren't supposed to be hit in the first place, but how does something like studded leather restrict you so much that you take a -30% to ALL skills? Studded leather is just regular leather armor with metal studs sewn in.

Studded leather armor doesn't incur a -30% to all skills, just pick pocketing and climbing walls. Move Silently and Hide in Shadows only take a -20% penalty, while Open Locks, Find/Remove Traps, and Detect Noise only suffer a -10% penalty.

Also, studded leather isn't just leather with metal studs in it. For one thing, it weighs 10 pounds more, and the heavier your armor, the more it effects thief skills. But aside from that, the two are made differently as well. Leather armor is boiled and hardened, for instance, while studded leather is not.

Wouldn't having the armor *not* boiled/hardened make it slightly easier to move in as it would have more "give" in it? Sure, weight *should* affect stuff, especially if you're trying to do something ridiculous like sneaking in plate mail, but I think some of the penalties are just a tad harsh. Mind you, I don't expect to be picking pockets a whole lot, but some of the other things, like 10% reduction to open locks/hide in shadows? What does weight of armor have to do with your ability to make yourself less visible? I could see gauntlets/gloves interfering with your ability to manipulate very small objects like lockpicks or trap-related stuff, but can't you take them off without compromising the "integrity" of the armor?

I realize this is a fantasy game, but at least some of this stuff has to be logical, right?

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to get off easy on things, I'm really not. I'm just trying to make sense of this.

[JadedDM]

Some of the rules are designed for logic or realism, but many are not. They exist either for balance or for simplicity. Just take a look at HP, for instance. There's nothing logical or realistic about it whatsoever.

I honestly don't know enough about armor in real life to say much more than I have; but likely the reason studded leather gives more penalties than leather is for balance than anything else (plus, it would make leather armor totally useless--there'd be no reason outside of encumbrance to ever choose it).

Still, ultimately it's up to NoTrammeling.

By the way, I was looking at your thief skills, and it appears you allocated 5 points to Read Language to bring it back up to 0. There's actually a rule that states thieves are not allowed to invest any points into Read Languages until 4th level; just a head's up.

[Faeryl Nhiikira]

By the way, I was looking at your thief skills, and it appears you allocated 5 points to Read Language to bring it back up to 0. There's actually a rule that states thieves are not allowed to invest any points into Read Languages until 4th level; just a head's up.

Wait, really? I must have missed that somewhere. If anything that is one of the strangest "rules" I have ever heard of. I knew 2e was radically different than 3e, but thieves being unable to "read at a normal level" until their 4th level of experience? What purpose could that possibly serve? Not a huge deal, but it's just another one of those little things that just bug me to no end.

If NoTrammeling wants me to drop those 5 points in read language until I reach 4th level, I can just put them into open lock instead. I just wanted to make things as close to the 0% mark as possible. Come to think of it though, does "0%" mean you can't do it at all, or what? I just somehow realized that I never found that out.

[NoTrammeling]

You have to have at least 1% in order to attempt a skill check, I believe it says that somewhere in the Rogue section of the PHB near the racial skill modifiers. I had a chance to look over the armor and I don't see that much of a problem with it. I think the penalties for pickpocket are based on your generally increased bulkiness, and clumsiness of using gloves. Picking pockets relies on being fast, and light, and having almost wholly unrestricted movement. This also explains climb walls/ms/hs.

Does studded leather really restrict movement more than leather armor? Probably not, but if it were up to me I might say even leather armor deserves penalties =p Having worn leather jackets and such I can confidently say they are stiff, they make noise when you move, they do restrict your movement, and they're quite bulky. Now armor specially made for the purpose is probably better than a leather jacket, but the principles are similar.

I would, however, agree that if you were to take off your gloves you would be penalty-free for OL/FR, having picked one or two in my time it's mostly wrist/finger-movement, feel, and finesse.

With regards to Read Languages, I don't really see any rhyme, reason, or balance in that rule so I'd be fine waiving it if you like.

Also, as to players we have Jaded, Horizons, Jenara, Breila, Onlie, Mike, Faeryl, and possibly Stik. So 8 ^^ annnnd there may or may not be 2 more people who have invitations.

[JadedDM]

Wait, really? I must have missed that somewhere. If anything that is one of the strangest "rules" I have ever heard of. I knew 2e was radically different than 3e, but thieves being unable to "read at a normal level" until their 4th level of experience? What purpose could that possibly serve? Not a huge deal, but it's just another one of those little things that just bug me to no end.

It's written in the description of the Read Languages skill itself. The reasoning seems to be that a thief hasn't had exposure to languages enough until that point. (Keep in mind, Read Languages is for reading stuff in languages you don't already know. If you know how to read a particular language already, the skill doesn't apply.)

Also, as to players we have Jaded, Horizons, Jenara, Breila, Onlie, Mike, Faeryl, and possibly Stik. So 8 ^^ annnnd there may or may not be 2 more people who have invitations.

Eight, possibly ten? Wow, are you going to split us into two groups or something?

By the way, got my picture up in the description thread.

EDIT: Oh, yeah--any hard date to when we're starting up yet?

[Faeryl Nhiikira]

Decided to downgrade my armor to regular leather to avoid penalties to my skills. Maybe once I get more of a buffer in them I'll upgrade back to studded. Also picked up a sling, just because what is a halfling without their throwing stones? (even if they are fired from a sling instead of thrown by hand)

[NoTrammeling]

That is precisely what I mean to do Jaded ^^ I didn't think we'd have so many people following through! I must say I'm pleased though. I may have to brew up a few side-quests or even a parallel main quest to keep things fair.

Start date, eh? How about this coming Saturday? Most people have turned in complete characters at this point so it's only Michael and Stik who need to get more to me. By the way Jaded, just how much of the module did you read? ;3

[JadedDM]

I didn't read it at all, actually. But a friend of mine has it, and I asked him to give me some advice on character creation--without spoilers. I was originally going to make a character who was really good at fighting undead, but he implied there weren't many undead in this module, so I dropped that idea. That kind of stuff.

[Jenara]

Tis a lot of players.... Be interesting to see the relationships and groups that form.....