WotL OOC Thread II

[Haahque]

In that case I'll go for the Rise of Istar, as Haahqae's a little more interested in before-cataclysm then after.

[BishGada]

Tulbas reasoning for not turning in Gobax/Grubnick are:
1. Grubnick is a proof of Raetmal's teachings that only the old gods are true.
2. Grubnick had healed him completely from almost dead.
3. Tulbas pretty much hates everything connected to Takhisys. Both the army, the church, and black mages (I know they are not necessarily Takhisys's mages but still...) They all had their hands in killing his family and actually his race. (That doesn't mean he won't become black Mage eventually, although the meeting with Grubnick currently pretty much gave him hope good will prevail and lighten his heart, and so made it less likely).

[Chris1234]

Divine Favor Updates
...I feel that Shima betraying Raena to the party (instead of the other way around) is worth a point, but again, I'm not clear on why he chose to do that.

In the spirit of transparency, rationale as follows {and critiques welcome}:

a) Playing dwarven nature as "resolute support for friends, resolute defiance of enemies."
b) Pathfinder kit makes Shima an outcast (shown perfectly by the married dwarves that Shima encountered early on in the High Hand)
c) New in town, not much money, oppressive atmosphere and taxes not to mention a hostile occupying army that he hates means that he's desperate for friends
d) Raena could have been a friend and then it could have played out differently, but she chose to treat him as a resource and a stupid one at that, refusing to pay for 1 night's lodgings and threatening him to boot. The treatments turned him off her (negative feeling at best, indignation, "how dare you..") threat and insult(s) turned him against her (hostile feelings generated, "you will regret that..").

[TristenC]

Lol. Thanks guys, I'm getting the warm fuzzies (and no, Grubnick will not take a walk with Haahque alone to the temple :p )

Hey Jaded, umm... no divine favor for the cleric who risked/exposed himself and showed Tulbas the old gods are real? That's ok if not, I just wanted to verify it is for a reason rather than omission.

[djhyland]

Dinner with Osred
I had a lot of fun with this scene. I knew Arulia wouldn't be able to bite her tongue around him, and it was way more entertaining to use him as the first suitor than to make up a new character. She's in a difficult position. How much of her morals can she compromise to make sure her family stays alive?

I enjoyed the dinner scene as well. After Thoron told Arulia which suitor was coming for dinner early in the chapter, I started planning out Arulia's withering and scathing outburst in giddy anticipation. It was fun getting to deliver it, but I was hoping that Osred would get more angry than smug so she could continue trading insults with him.

(Arulia's hoped-for treatment of Osred.)

Being as naive as Arulia was about her family's finances, having Thoron come to Arulia with his account book was unexpected. I was ready to have Arulia blow up at him as much as she blew up at Osred. I think that the way it played out was more powerful, though, and it will change how Arulia acts (hopefully for the better). While she's idealistic and good-hearted, she's also self-centered and thinks that the world revolves around her. A dose of reality was bound to happen, and that it happened this way has Arulia re-evaluating her principles.

As a mostly unrelated aside, I wish I had started Arulia as older than 21 years old. As a half-elf, that seems very young--not that playing a young character is bad, per se. But since she was once a Seeker guard, that'd have her a joining a quasi-military force at 19 or 20 at the latest. While there's probably no hard-and-fast rules about what 21 in half-elf years is in human years, I have to imagine it as if a 13 or 14 year old girl joined the guard, and that seems a bit wrong to me. Moreover, I keep thinking of her as a young teenager at the present time--15 or 16 at most, not much more mature than any of her sisters. I've tried to present her as such (e.g. the outburst with Osred and the self-centeredness). On the other hand, she acts more mature when she tries to be protective of her sisters (as she's five years older than the next-eldest). I guess that being a half-elf has got to be complicated to begin with, and living as part of a human family must not make it easier.

[JadedDM]

In that case I'll go for the Rise of Istar, as Haahqae's a little more interested in before-cataclysm then after.

Okay, done. We can say he did a lot of research over the past week.

Back to the Grubnick thing, though, you're saying (if I understand right) that Haahqae won't turn in the cleric because he needs all the allies he can get? So it's more of a pragmatism thing?

Grubnick is a proof of Raetmal's teachings that only the old gods are true.

Doesn't the existence of Takhisis and her true clerics also prove that, though?

Tulbas pretty much hates everything connected to Takhisys (sic).

So you'd say his motives are partially based on spite?

Grubnick currently pretty much gave him hope good will prevail and lighten his heart

Just to clarify, though, you understand that Sirrion is not a Good deity, but Neutral, right? Or has Tulbas mistakenly come to believe Sirrion is a force for Good?

Hey Jaded, umm... no divine favor for the cleric who risked/exposed himself and showed Tulbas the old gods are real? That's ok if not, I just wanted to verify it is for a reason rather than omission.

Tulbas already knew the old gods were real, though, via Takhisis.

Sirrion isn't a god of knowledge of enlightenment, though, so even if Tulbas had somehow missed that the old gods were real, it wouldn't fall under Sirrion's domain. Sirrion's portfolio includes Passion, Creativity, Chaos, Fire, Renewal, and Charm.

Of course, I'm assuming that you meant divine favor from Sirrion. If you're asking for a point in Gilean or Zivilyn or something, then yeah, I'd probably agree.

While she's idealistic and good-hearted, she's also self-centered and thinks that the world revolves around her. A dose of reality was bound to happen, and that it happened this way has Arulia re-evaluating her principles.

As the only Good aligned person in the party, Arulia is likely going to have the hardest time during the occupation. Part of the theme of this arc is how well you can survive without compromising what's most important to you. Hopefully she can make it unscathed.

As a mostly unrelated aside, I wish I had started Arulia as older than 21 years old.

In Dragonlance, half-elves mature at age 20 (15 for humans), so a 21 year old half-elf would be around 15 or 16 in human years, yeah. You also add +20 years to each age category, so she won't become middle-aged until 82 (instead of 62), for example.

[Haahque]

Xyleena is a level 2 fighter and Yvette is a level 3 bard. So they were on par with the rest of the party. Or close to it. They really didn't perform any worse than anyone else, as far as I could see. Just bad rolls on my part, probably.

I was a little curiious about how I got this impression, so I went over it again. Xyleena and Yvette weren't useful in any non-battle aspects, so let's look at the battles. In our second foray into the cultist base (the one with Xyleena and Yvette) we fought 3 battles.

First battle:
Xyleena charges into the fray, gets caught in a trap, frees herself and retreats. Then she does nothing.
Yvette fires her crossbow for 5 turns in a row, missing every shot except for the last one (hit for 4 damage).

Second battle:
Xyleena stays at the back with the ranged troops, she fires a crossbow 3 times and hits twice, for 2 damage once and 3 damage the other time
Yvette stays at the back and fires her crossbow 3 times. She hits once for 4 damage.

Third battle:
They leave and steal our loot.

So they did nearly nothing in the first battle worth mentioning, in the second battle they stood where they had nearly no self-risk and shot ranged weapons with a 50% hit rate and fairly low damage per hit. They did not secure any killing blows and I don't think either of them took any damage in either fight. Is it a stretch to say a typical foot-soldier with a crossbow couldn't have accomplished as much?

As for the motivation, um I guess pragmatism might work. Is there no god/goddess of friendship? Given that Haahqae still hasn't summoned a familiar due to cash restraints, I find it sort of hard to argue that not turning someone in for (enough cash to summon a familiar) is the pragmatic solution.

[JadedDM]

Like I said, I got some bad rolls. But a 'typical foot soldier' would have died. Xyleena was badly wounded in the fighting, which is why she retreated to the back row to use her crossbow. A typical foot soldier wouldn't have survived the wounds she took.

Just so it's understood, a typical foot soldier is a level 0 warrior with 1d8+1 HP, THAC0 20, and no special abilities or skills like specialization, spellcasting, etc., and with ability scores ranging from 8-12 on average.

Xyleena and Yvette had more HP, better THAC0, and special abilities (weapon specialization, bard song, etc.) and their ability scores ranged from 9-16.

There are gods of friendship, sort of. Habbakuk is the god of loyalty and Kiri-Jolith is the god of brotherhood, so you could make an argument for either. But does Haahqae really feel such a strong sense of friendship for a guy he just met three days ago? I didn't realize, if that is the case.

[Haahque]

I didn't see them really use special abilities in that fight, no bard song, no extra attacks from weapon specialization, their THAC0 difference isn't enough to make a huge difference in accuracy, exemplified with their rolls missing more then half of the time, maybe I missed the part where Xyleena was wounded, but that's about the only thing she did that's more then a typical foot soldier.

Meanwhile what can I say? Haahqae makes friends very easily. We've gone over how that's come back to bite him on multiple occasions. A "strong" sense of friendship? Perhaps due to how much healing Haahqae's needed healing and someone to protect his back in his adventures have sort of sorted out who are his friends and who aren't by examples so distinct that even Haahqae can't help but notice them.

But at the same time, Haahqae's lifestyle that he's used to (and plans to continue, if possible) usually has him staying in the same place for one or two weeks, then moving on. With a lifestyle like this he doesn't really plan to have any long-term lasting friends, just people that he likes and people he doesn't.

[TristenC]

JadedDM said:
Sirrion isn't a god of knowledge of enlightenment, though, so even if Tulbas had somehow missed that the old gods were real, it wouldn't fall under Sirrion's domain. Sirrion's portfolio includes Passion, Creativity, Chaos, Fire, Renewal, and Charm.

Of course, I'm assuming that you meant divine favor from Sirrion. If you're asking for a point in Gilean or Zivilyn or something, then yeah, I'd probably agree.

Renewal of hope for Tulbas, opposition to the imbalance of power (Takhisis), response to Tulbas' passionate breakdown




Haahque:
Or maybe it's because Grubnick brought you back from death's door twice in 2 consecutive days...

[JadedDM]

Renewal of hope for Tulbas

Ah, but Hope is in the portfolio for Branchala.

opposition to the imbalance of power (Takhisis)

Has he actually done anything to oppose Takhisis' hold on the city yet, though? That's not clear.

response to Tulbas' passionate breakdown

Hmm, well, Tulbas might qualify for a point in Sirrion then! Hmm, but I suppose that can qualify, assuming invoking a passionate response was what Grubnick was trying to do when he healed him. Alright, one point for Sirrion then.

[TristenC]

Yay, Thanks.

Grubnick has been basically sticking his neck out for strangers (revealing his nature as a heretic via healing) in order to get the chance to find allues so he can affect a change in the city and oppose the Dragon Queen. Tulbas has had some very passionate moments, particularly regarding Magnus... perhaps Sirrion would be perfect for him . Can I interject some talks w/Tulbas about Sirrion in the week-long skip?

I suppose if he calms down a bit he might be more interested in Gilean, but we can RP it out. Sirrion is led by Gilean, so at least he might not get mad if Grubnick finds Tulbas a better fit there I hope

I was thinking of Tulbas' renewal in the sense that he felt crushed after 1) the loss of his family (particularly Raetmal) and 2) his own subjugation (by Magnus/Church). His spirit had been damaged (like a burned forest), but at the promise of the old gods returning (other than the one reaponsible for all his grief) his spirit seems renewed. Renewal provided the hope, I didn't feel they were mutually exclusive properties.

Really the only thing he has been able to do so far to oppose Takhisis is to try to bolster others against her and try to help those she is hurting (Green Tears, the guy with the broken lute, Tulbas).

[mgbevan]

Gregeddin didn't feel like turning in Gobax to the church since he is trying to be kinder to others after his selfish spree. And the church doesn't give him the best feeling. But having said this who knows what he will turn to to maintain the lifestyle he craves.

On a separate note, I realised he is now disgustingly unclean. He should probably do something about that. Also a quick question, since we are fast forwarding in the meta plot, how will that affect HP recovery?

I too get the feeling that old faces are going to turn up with vengeance. At least the ban on weapons should keep us physically safe for the time being.

Lastly. I'm going on holiday for a week so may be inactive for a short while. Thanks as always Jaded, very fun!

[Haahque]

Concerning the ban on weapons, A sling is less then 1 pound and composed of very mundane materials (leather, straps), could Haahqae start carrying around his sling without getting into trouble? He could stash it at the bottom of his bag where the guards aren't likely to check and call it a spare strap for his bag if questioned. If he needs ammo, he can scrounge stones off the street whenever he needs them.

That's plan A. Plan B is if the guards don't buy that, then Haahqae might have an "accident" and need an "eye patch". Of course when Haahqae needs his sling to fight with, he'd miraculously be cured and be able to see out of both eyes again.

[djhyland]

On a separate note, I realised he is now disgustingly unclean.

Arulia, too, needs a bath. Unless water starts costing money, she'll take one every day (even if it's a cold bath). She's not going to attract many suitors if she's smelling like she's been adventuring, after all.