PlanetADnD.com

Breila wrote:(OOC: it's not that I'm not reading on here, but right now, I have the feeling you're doing better without the DM's intervention)

I would like to come straight out at this point and say that I feel badly about opposing JadedDM on this. It's not like me to cause trouble in the party, or shake up the established way of doing things. If Jaded of anyone else feels I am overstepping, I apologize.

But all the same, I think Martin's concerns are valid. Amon has already offered to let the gnolls go, but it's not safe. If such a situation came up in one of my campaigns, the gnolls would definitely turn up later on, and not in a good way. They're gnolls. They're not about to put aside their culture and instincts and become florists.

At this point, I'm on the fence between recruiting the gnolls as mercenaries or killing them regardless of Amon's promise.

Brax thinks they would be best recruited!

I suppose it all really falls to Breila to decide whether humanoids (like gnolls) are inherently evil, thus making this a black and white campaign, or if they are evil by circumstance, in which case just about anything could happen, depending on a number of different variables.

Amon, of course, believes there is good in everyone. He also has had no experience whatsoever prior to this with humanoids, including gnolls. If he turns out to be wrong (and again, that's up to Breila), it could well change him if something bad comes from it later on (such as the town being attacked or what have you).

If Martin attempts to kill the gnolls anyway (I wonder if he can--Vee and Gunter were barely able to hold their own against them), Amon would find that rather off-putting (if he learns of it). Martin hasn't exactly endeared himself to Amon so far. In fact, he's been very rude and pushy. So killing the gnolls could create an unrepairable rift between them (again, unless Martin kills them without Amon knowing or finding out about it).

It all is quite the moral quandary (unless this is a black and white morality campaign, in which case Amon is just flat out wrong), but that is what makes the situation so interesting.

IF they had more coin to them, Searos would enjoy relieving them of said coin with a friendly AND FAIR game of dice.

Maybe it helps you all to know I'm a big fan of shades of grey?

Gnolls are not common in the area around Saltmarsh, otherwise the children would have called them "gnolls" and not "men with dog faces and fur all over".

I love shades of grey.
The gnolls might not be inherently evil. Who knows? But even if they were people instead of gnolls, mercenaries, foreigners who didn't speak the local language or know the local customs, I don't think Martin's attitude would be much different.
Besides, evil or not, these guys are not exactly going to be welcome in the neighborhood. It's as much for their good as the town's that they be watched.

And Martin, pushy? Naw. He is just trying to find the line.

OK, I've made my mind up a little more about how I want to treat gnolls in this campaign.

I see the "C" in their alignment meaning mostly that they are un-organized and, due in part to their low intelligence, not able to pursue long-term goals. They will easily shift focus and loyalty.

The "E" I will treat as meaning they are completely egoistic (rather like the "homo economicus") and have no qualms about using violence to get what they want.

However, they are social animals, living in packs, and therefore must have rules of behaviour. One of them would be a strict group hierarchy that is fought out if necessary. Having no easy access to field studies of hyena packs, I'll make do with what I know about canine behaviour in general.

Khchk has offered his bare throat to Brax. indicating he sees himself - for the time being - as lower in rank than her.


Oh, and the field, orchard and hut you are in now is about half a mile from the village, not directly visible from there. It would not be absolutely necessary to hide the gnolls in cloaks to disguise their identity from the villagers. No one has come after you yet.

This is where roleplaying comes in.

I'm not religious, not in anyway, to play what is essentially a very devout person takes a lot of work!

I think Searos is going to be a pious character who just thinks that priests get in the way.

Now I'm kind of curious.

How tall is Vee and how much does she weigh?

Because if Brax is really 5'0 and 94 pounds, I wonder if she is really the 'little one' in the party after all.

That would actually be kind of ironic, particularly as Brax has called Vee 'little one' more than anyone else in the group.

lol! Ohh the irony!

Actually, wait...it's right there on her private thread. I should have thought to check there first.

Now I want to do some comparisons. This kind of data could be useful for roleplaying.

Tallest to shortest
Gunter (6'6")
Amon and Searos (6'0")
Martin (5'11")
Kim (5'7")
Echo (5'6")
Vee (5'3")
Brax (5'0")

Wow, I never realized it, but Gunter's pretty darn tall. Amon and Searos are tied, and Martin is the shortest of the males (but only by an inch). Meanwhile, Brax is the shortest by three inches. I can only imagine what she looks like when standing right next to Gunter. In fact, I'm surprised more people don't mistaken her for a child.

But this is kind of useful. I know now to have Amon look up when addressing Gunter, and down when addressing Brax, in order to maintain eye contact.

Heaviest to lightest
Martin (180 lbs)
Searos (170 lbs)
Gunter (160 lbs)
Echo (142 lbs)
Amon (140 lbs)
Vee (128 lbs)
Kim (115 lbs)
Brax (94 lbs)

Now that's interesting. Martin is the heaviest, and Brax is the lightest. Vee's actually only the third lightest.

Martin seems pretty normal. Without knowing his STR score, I can't speculate on how much of his weight is muscle or bulk.

Searos is a bit skinny, but one might expect that from a rogue, who is built more for stealth and delicacy than anything else.

Gunter is very thin. Odd, I kind of pictured him being bulkier, especially as Searos is always calling him 'muscles' but based on this information, Gunter sounds more like a lithe body type--a runner, for instance, as opposed to a weight-lifter. But his STR is 18/23, suggesting he should probably be bigger than that.

Echo's pretty normal sized for her build. She has some curves, in fact I'd go out on a limb and say she's probably the most 'well-endowed' of the women in the party. Except for her ears and facial features, she probably could easily pass as a full-blooded human, in fact.

Amon is pretty skinny. But that's what I was going for. He's not an athlete, but stays indoors all of the time, reading books. His STR score is 10, so he's not totally scrawny, though.

Vee is likely fairly thin, too. She's short, too, but not as short as Brax. I'd chalk this up to age, but actually at 15, she's probably as tall as she's going to get. Not knowing her STR score, I can't speculate too much on how bulked up she may or may not be.

I would say Kim is thin and reedy, but her STR is 13--good enough to be a fighter, had she decided to pursue that career parth. Meaning she's actually somewhat muscular.

Finally, that leaves Brax. She's tiny and short, but her STR is 16...which suggests she's really muscular, too. Like a tiny body-builder? I mean, she'd have to be to be able to bench-press 200 pounds at that size. Guess she's not likely to be mistaken for a child after all, especially with as much skin as she shows off. Somehow I doubt that's the mental image Jenara had in mind when she made her.

Actually not the image i had in mind at all!

I saw her as something more like an athlete, not overly 'muscled', but with strength and stamina. Her chr is somewhat lacking (more than average) she has a reasonable body, but her skin and eyes make her less attractive.

Yeah, I figured. Lots of people don't really think about what the stats means when they make characters. One of my very early players used to complain about it to me all of the time, which is what first made me self-aware of it. She once made a human barbarian with a STR of 18/63, and was always sure to emphasize that her character was not smooth-skinned and chest heavy, but actually extremely muscular (especially as she was fairly short, too, about 5'5" or so, I think) and flat as a board (the more muscular a woman is, the less endowed she tends to be).

Also, Brax lacks Charisma? Her CHA score is 13, which is actually pretty good. Gives her a +1 reaction, after all. In fact, not taking into consideration Vee and Martin (as I don't know their cha scores, although if Martin is a bard, it must be at least pretty good), Brax has one of the better CHA scores in the group. Searos is 12, Echo and Kim are 8, and Gunter is 10. So at the very least, she's more charismatic than half the party!

Not as good as Amon, though (16)! Too bad his low dexterity (5) often undermines how charming he can be. It's hard to be charismatic when you keep tripping over your own feet.

Vee has a strength of 16 and charisma of 8. Martin has high charisma, you were right about that. Brax, in fact, has the third highest CHA in the group.

(And I'll tell Luna that you said Vee was "fairly thin". Vee is exactly the same height as her but heavier. And Luna often thinks she is too heavy, like most teenage girls do...)

And, Jaded, a Klutz can be so endearing...