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Just before Shima attacks the rat he is apparently undetected.
An undetected backstab attempt is before combat.
Surprise check comes at the start of combat.
If Shima had just stood there would the rat have made a surprise roll? I think not. But Shima would have made another sneak roll (HS & or MS).
In other words, the stealth roll should be what determines whether the sneak attack is by surprise or not.
A surprise roll should be applicable for whether the thief can do other stuff, e.g. run away, before the opponent reacts.
Therefore I believe that the backstab attack (after the successful sneak) should gain +4 and not just +2 for a rear attack.

From the lack of responses by Jaded during the last couple cycles, I’m guessing that Myriam and Jaymes didn’t decide to take Haahqae’s que and come over to talk with Arulia and Gobax. Is this correct?

Chris1234 wrote:Therefore I believe that the backstab attack (after the successful sneak) should gain +4 and not just +2 for a rear attack.

I didn't roll surprise to see if the backstab would work, I did it to see if the rats would be able to retaliate. Had they been surprised, they would not have been able to.

The reason it's a back attack, and not a backstab, is you cannot backstab a rat. According to the PHB, "The victim must be generally humanoid." Rats are quadrupeds, not humanoids.

Haahque wrote:I’m guessing that Myriam and Jaymes didn’t decide to take Haahqae’s que and come over to talk with Arulia and Gobax. Is this correct?

That's right. Miriam and Jaymes are still at the table.

Ok, you got me. Fair enough.

In reply to Jaded's comment: The only indications that I ever recall you giving about how much money it was was that it was "a lot" and that it would weigh Haahqae down if he was to carry it. I don't recall any estimate even as vague as "between 100 and 1000 coins".

On the other hand, it was just off the back of an adventure which was of similar difficulty which paid everyone much more then 100 steel per person, for what was probably a larger group then what he had there.

I do not recall any indication ever that it was less then 100 steel per person, and even if it was smaller, Haahqae's likely to have blown it a bit out of proportion from how long he's been hunting to get it back.

Haahque wrote:On the other hand, it was just off the back of an adventure which was of similar difficulty which paid everyone much more then 100 steel per person, for what was probably a larger group then what he had there.

I don't know about similar difficulty. The giant quest you brought several high level NPCs, so the party just breezed through it easily.

As for party size, the giant quest had 11 people (Haahqae, Gregeddin, Tulbas, Ismene, Miriam, Jaymes, Magnus, Mateo, Zora, Raena and Burzan). However, Mateo and Zora did not receive a share of treasure, and Ismene, Miriam, Jaymes and Magnus all received a larger than normal share since they were higher level. The Neo-Belzorite quest had 9 people (Haahqae, Gregeddin, Arulia, Felran, Ne-Chanz, Ismene, Pen, Yvette and Xyleena). Then you brought in Shima as a 10th later. Not sure if I should count Tulbas, since he was rescued. Now Jaymes and Miriam are involved, too. So 12 or 13 people, I guess?

Haahque wrote:Haahqae's likely to have blown it a bit out of proportion from how long he's been hunting to get it back.

Yeah, I had a feeling he might be exaggerating in order to entice them to help.

JadedDM wrote:(OOC: "The sum of money...was likely over a hundred steel per person." Wow, does Haahqae really think it was that much? No wonder you guys are so hellbent on getting it back. )

If only!

No, I don't think that it's anywhere near that much, but even a few steel would help Arulia a lot right now, so she's certainly interested in getting it back. Also, she knows that Yvette and Xyleena won't be carrying it all around with them, but hopefully she can get a few coins out of the confrontation.

Just putting it out there that Arulia and Gobax are more then welcome to walk a short distance and join the conversation.

They were welcome to come along with him in the first place, and I'm rather confused as to why they didn't, but I sort of want to get this small party together so we can actually do things before the chapter ends.

I'm just doing my best to keep the plot moving. It's all I can do.

I'm guessing they've just been busy with the holidays. Things should start getting back to normal around here soon.

Honestly Gobax has never jad any contact with the two Haahque is trying to recruit and the Gnome has made no indication as to whether or not they are even remotely interested or that Gobax and Arulia should bother coming over. Since he knows the pair, it is kind of up to him to make introductions. Now thay he is visibly about to cry however, Gobax will approach.

@spyguy - I'd guess a lycanthrope, so needs silver or magic weapons to hit, but Shima probably wouldn't know that, so am treating it as just a rat, however unusual.

JadedDM wrote:(OOC: As Arulia is not skilled in the club, she suffers a -3 to hit with it.)

(OOC: But "Club" is Arulia's first listed weapon proficiency...which I took just for this sort of contingency!)

In my post I said that Haahqae:

1) Cast detect magic
2) Searched for traps and secret doors
3) Went outside to meet up with Arulia and Gobax

In your reply, you only replied to one of these things. Am I to take that it takes long enough for him to finish all 3 that you wanted the others some time to do things before Haahqae rejoined them? (aka want me to wait for a post or two)

[Ooc: He may have been thinking of Grubnick, who trird to use a torch as a club once. Grubnick is proficient with the mace but not the club]

djhyland wrote: But "Club" is Arulia's first listed weapon proficiency

Oh, sorry about that. I suppose I was looking at Grubnick's stat block by mistake. Nevermind then.

Haahque wrote:In your reply, you only replied to one of these things.

No, I must have missed that. He finds no traps or secret doors then. As for going outside, I assumed he did that automatically when he was done.