Infintie Holding
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BryantTheSwordsman
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Infintie Holding
Can you have a bag of holding in another bag of holding? Does it work? What about other dimensional stuff, like could you have a tent that is bigger than normal inside in a bag of holding?
"The Gerbil of Andor and Alera"
I always lumped these type discussions into the "Can I wish for more wishes from the Genie?"-type questions. I think it's the DMs call, but I wouldn't let players put a bag of holding in a bag of holding, as I can't get my head around the quantum mechanics of it.
It sounds a little weak:
Dragons exist? Check. Magic exists? Check. There just happens to be 10d8 gold pieces an a pile in the corner of a room with a monster that has no use for coinage? OK. But a bag of holding inside another bag of holding--no way, Jose.
If I couldn't find something specific in the rules forbidding it. I'd pull rank as DM with my "Players aren't allowed to do things that make my head hurt" rule.
It sounds a little weak:
Dragons exist? Check. Magic exists? Check. There just happens to be 10d8 gold pieces an a pile in the corner of a room with a monster that has no use for coinage? OK. But a bag of holding inside another bag of holding--no way, Jose.
If I couldn't find something specific in the rules forbidding it. I'd pull rank as DM with my "Players aren't allowed to do things that make my head hurt" rule.
--Doomer
"Trying is the first step in failure"-Homer Simpson
"Trying is the first step in failure"-Homer Simpson
Re: Infintie Holding
I would have to judge this as the same type of situation as putting a portable hole inside a bag of holding or vice versa.BryantTheSwordsman wrote:Can you have a bag of holding in another bag of holding? Does it work? What about other dimensional stuff, like could you have a tent that is bigger than normal inside in a bag of holding?
From the 1E DMG, p 152:
"If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space, and the bag and the cloth are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to another plane, and the 'hole, bag' and any creatures within a 10' radius are drawn to the plane, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process."
There are a lot of things that are *possible* to do, but just aren't a good or safe idea. Let them *try*. It's just that the results of doing so aren't quite as nice and beneficial as they originally thought.doomer wrote:If I couldn't find something specific in the rules forbidding it. I'd pull rank as DM with my "Players aren't allowed to do things that make my head hurt" rule.
(See also the "Potion Miscibility Table", 1E DMG p. 119, for another one of those things that players like to try, but isn't as good of an idea as it might have seemed at the time.)
Re: Infintie Holding
This is the rule I follow, had something similar happen to a Character in Baba Yaga's hut, fell into an extra dimensional space in a carpet with a belt of many pouches... Ended up in the Astral plane.Serian wrote:I would have to judge this as the same type of situation as putting a portable hole inside a bag of holding or vice versa.
From the 1E DMG, p 152:
"If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space, and the bag and the cloth are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to another plane, and the 'hole, bag' and any creatures within a 10' radius are drawn to the plane, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process."
Two extra dimensional spaces can't occupy the same space. Simple as, think this may have been in Sage Advice in a Dragon from the 90's.
But then, that's my view, what does everyone else think?
"Doors and corners, I told him. Doors and corners."
Yeah, exactlydoomer wrote:I always lumped these type discussions into the "Can I wish for more wishes from the Genie?"-type questions. I think it's the DMs call, but I wouldn't let players put a bag of holding in a bag of holding, as I can't get my head around the quantum mechanics of it.
It sounds a little weak:
Dragons exist? Check. Magic exists? Check. There just happens to be 10d8 gold pieces an a pile in the corner of a room with a monster that has no use for coinage? OK. But a bag of holding inside another bag of holding--no way, Jose.
If I couldn't find something specific in the rules forbidding it. I'd pull rank as DM with my "Players aren't allowed to do things that make my head hurt" rule.
As a DM, my players do as TOLD! or the game simply ends... and we'll never play again ... simple as that.With all the effort I put into the game, maps, cities, npcs etc, the last thing I want as a DM is a headache dumb-ass argument like that.
If the player persisted, I would simply explain that anything in the bag and the bag itself, that was put into the original bag was simply consumed by strange magics ..
there, problem solved The Borg of Dungeons & Dragons
I have a hard and fast rule on placing a bag of holding inside a bad of holding. BAD THINGS HAPPEN!
Roll Percentile:
01-05: Outer bag bursts into flames and burns to ash, inner bag remains unharmed. Objects in the outer bag are checked for destruction by normal fire (normal saving throws apply). Any ill effects from item destruction are then applied.
06-15: Both bags burst into flames and burn to ash. Check items for destruction by normal fire, items in inner bag save at -2, normal saving trow for items in outer bag. Apply ill effects of item destruction.
16-40: Inner bag explodes. Items in outer bag are thrown 2d10 feet, outer bag remains undamaged. Items in inner bag are checked for destruction by Magic, Normal saving throws. Surviving items are thrown 1d6 feet. Magic items that survive destruction are rendered inert for one day. Apply ill effects of item destruction.
41-75: Both bags explode. Explosion causes 3d10 damage divided evenly between all creatures in a 10' area, any remainder applied to the schmuck holding the bags. Check items for destruction by Magic. Items in in inner bag save at -4, outer bag at -2. Surviving items are thrown 3d10 feet. All surviving magic items are inert for 1d6 days. Apply ill effects of item destruction.
76-80: Bags Implode. The bags and all items contained inside are lost, transported to another Plane(DM's Choice). Player holding the bags has a 20% chance of being transported as well. Roll %. If it's more than 20, the player stays, 20 or less, they go. A transported player has a 50/50 chance of going to the same place as the bags. Less than 50, they go with the bags, more than 50, they go elsewhere, re-roll on a 50.
81-90: See the rules for portable hole vs. bag of holding.
91-92: Inner bag and all items in inner bag disappear.
93-94: Outer bag disappears, items in outer bag fall to the floor.
95: Both bags disappear. Items in inner bag are lost, items in outer bag fall to the floor.
96-97: Outer bag quivers for one round, turns neon green, then expels its entire contents along with 1d4 Slimes, Jellies, or Oozes of the DM's choosing. Both bags remain undamaged.
98: Outer bag belches and releases a cloud of Sleep Gas. It lasts for 2d4 rounds, adjusted for wind. All creatures in a 2d10+10 radius must save vs. sleep(normal saving throws) or fall asleep for 1d12 rounds, or until they suffer damage, whichever comes first. Re-check every turn. Inner bag and all items inside disappear or are expelled, DM's choice.
99: Outer bag belches and releases a cloud of Toxic Gas. It lasts for 2d4 rounds, adjusted for wind. All creatures in a 2d10+10 radius must save vs. poison or pass out and die in 2d4 turns + CON/2(Hit dice/2 for creatures without CON). On a successful save, the creature passes out until the gas dissipates, but does not die. Players may choose to save at -3, if they succeed they don't pass out. Creatures who fail their saving throws can make an additional saving throw at -1(cumulative) to add 1d4 turns to their lifespan. No further saving throws are granted to players who are simply unconscious. Death can be avoided by Cure Poison, generic poison antidote, or any healing spells cast by a Paladin of at least level 7, or a Cleric of at least level 5. Inner bag and all the items in it disappear or are expelled, DM's choice.
100: Nothing Happens. Inner bag and the items inside can be retrieved normally. These two bags can "play nice" and the inner bag (the submissive bag) can be placed back into the outer bag (the dominant bag) without a re-roll. Reversing the order (trying to place the dominant bag inside of the submissive bag) however is another matter, re-roll on this table. In the unlikely event that nothing happens again, the position can be swapped out at will. If someone attempts to put a different bag into either of these two or either of these two in a different bag, re-roll on this table. Apply the results to ALL THREE BAGS. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that nothing happens again, first smack the player with a rolled up news paper, check the dice to make sure they're not loaded, then re-roll.
If the dice come up 100 again, you might as well pack it in at this point.
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Had a lot of fun with these rules. Had one player, a level 9 Paladin who TRIED to get both bags to explode. The party was fighting a rather old, very angry red dragon, and it was winning. They had managed to retreat, but it was just a matter of time before the dragon got them. The paladin, Sir Ghirard of the Sacred Flame, grabbed the bags of holding from the party bard and fighter, ran towards the dragon and shoved one bag inside the other.
It was so in character and well played I had to give it to him. I fudged the saving throws for the items so that a few trinkets survived, a few magic items blew up, just enough to even the odds a bit.
The players we're good enough to beat the dragon in a close, difficult fight, but the dice were really screwing them over.
Roll Percentile:
01-05: Outer bag bursts into flames and burns to ash, inner bag remains unharmed. Objects in the outer bag are checked for destruction by normal fire (normal saving throws apply). Any ill effects from item destruction are then applied.
06-15: Both bags burst into flames and burn to ash. Check items for destruction by normal fire, items in inner bag save at -2, normal saving trow for items in outer bag. Apply ill effects of item destruction.
16-40: Inner bag explodes. Items in outer bag are thrown 2d10 feet, outer bag remains undamaged. Items in inner bag are checked for destruction by Magic, Normal saving throws. Surviving items are thrown 1d6 feet. Magic items that survive destruction are rendered inert for one day. Apply ill effects of item destruction.
41-75: Both bags explode. Explosion causes 3d10 damage divided evenly between all creatures in a 10' area, any remainder applied to the schmuck holding the bags. Check items for destruction by Magic. Items in in inner bag save at -4, outer bag at -2. Surviving items are thrown 3d10 feet. All surviving magic items are inert for 1d6 days. Apply ill effects of item destruction.
76-80: Bags Implode. The bags and all items contained inside are lost, transported to another Plane(DM's Choice). Player holding the bags has a 20% chance of being transported as well. Roll %. If it's more than 20, the player stays, 20 or less, they go. A transported player has a 50/50 chance of going to the same place as the bags. Less than 50, they go with the bags, more than 50, they go elsewhere, re-roll on a 50.
81-90: See the rules for portable hole vs. bag of holding.
91-92: Inner bag and all items in inner bag disappear.
93-94: Outer bag disappears, items in outer bag fall to the floor.
95: Both bags disappear. Items in inner bag are lost, items in outer bag fall to the floor.
96-97: Outer bag quivers for one round, turns neon green, then expels its entire contents along with 1d4 Slimes, Jellies, or Oozes of the DM's choosing. Both bags remain undamaged.
98: Outer bag belches and releases a cloud of Sleep Gas. It lasts for 2d4 rounds, adjusted for wind. All creatures in a 2d10+10 radius must save vs. sleep(normal saving throws) or fall asleep for 1d12 rounds, or until they suffer damage, whichever comes first. Re-check every turn. Inner bag and all items inside disappear or are expelled, DM's choice.
99: Outer bag belches and releases a cloud of Toxic Gas. It lasts for 2d4 rounds, adjusted for wind. All creatures in a 2d10+10 radius must save vs. poison or pass out and die in 2d4 turns + CON/2(Hit dice/2 for creatures without CON). On a successful save, the creature passes out until the gas dissipates, but does not die. Players may choose to save at -3, if they succeed they don't pass out. Creatures who fail their saving throws can make an additional saving throw at -1(cumulative) to add 1d4 turns to their lifespan. No further saving throws are granted to players who are simply unconscious. Death can be avoided by Cure Poison, generic poison antidote, or any healing spells cast by a Paladin of at least level 7, or a Cleric of at least level 5. Inner bag and all the items in it disappear or are expelled, DM's choice.
100: Nothing Happens. Inner bag and the items inside can be retrieved normally. These two bags can "play nice" and the inner bag (the submissive bag) can be placed back into the outer bag (the dominant bag) without a re-roll. Reversing the order (trying to place the dominant bag inside of the submissive bag) however is another matter, re-roll on this table. In the unlikely event that nothing happens again, the position can be swapped out at will. If someone attempts to put a different bag into either of these two or either of these two in a different bag, re-roll on this table. Apply the results to ALL THREE BAGS. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that nothing happens again, first smack the player with a rolled up news paper, check the dice to make sure they're not loaded, then re-roll.
If the dice come up 100 again, you might as well pack it in at this point.
______________________________________________________________
Had a lot of fun with these rules. Had one player, a level 9 Paladin who TRIED to get both bags to explode. The party was fighting a rather old, very angry red dragon, and it was winning. They had managed to retreat, but it was just a matter of time before the dragon got them. The paladin, Sir Ghirard of the Sacred Flame, grabbed the bags of holding from the party bard and fighter, ran towards the dragon and shoved one bag inside the other.
It was so in character and well played I had to give it to him. I fudged the saving throws for the items so that a few trinkets survived, a few magic items blew up, just enough to even the odds a bit.
The players we're good enough to beat the dragon in a close, difficult fight, but the dice were really screwing them over.
"Each night I taste eternal bliss and feel again her burning kiss,<br>yet stolen each day by waking light, longing for her and eternal night"<br><br><br>- Eternal Night, 5th Verse.<br>