"I've got a bad feeling about this..."

[phindar]

The players in my current campaign have all but painted themselves into a corner. They're low on spells and have holed up in the basement of an evil temple located in the center of an enemy city. Last session ended on a grim stalemate with the enemy forces unable to fight their way into the dungeon, and the PC's unwilling to surrender. So the next session will likely begin with the enemy bringing the full weight of whatever they have left to bear on the PC's, which could lead to the PC's being defeated and captured.

The PC’s plan hinges on their casters getting eight hours of rest with no more than the one interruption that has already happened. With the tanks and rogue guarding the only entrance to the dungeon, they’ve decided to try to hold out. The NPC’s next move is to take other means into the dungeon, specifically Passwall and Stone Shape spells that will let them drop in and surround the PC’s. The NPC’s have the benefit of near perfect information, as this is their home and they’ve sent in minions with telepathic links under the guise of negotiating their surrender. The PC’s are at their weakest (although they have a Staff of Life, so healing isn’t an issue), while the situation allows the toughest of the NPC’s to attack at their leisure (and fully buffed).

As a GM, I strive for impartiality. To deus ex machine the PC’s to victory would rob the game of whatever meaning it has. But failure is a bitter pill for the players to swallow. I am a little worried that if the game ends as darkly as I think it might, it will engender some ill will from my players. I want them to win or lose on their own merits, which means they have to have the freedom to fail. If they lose, it’s not the end of the game. If captured, they can be rescued. (My game uses a Hero Point like mechanic which makes PC death less common, so I’m not worried about a TPK.)

I still feel a little guilty. Sometimes when the PC’s embark upon a plan of action that seems ill-considered, some fault lies with the GM. After all, it’s the GM who has presented the situation to the PC’s, and all their subsequent decisions come from the information the GM has provided. I don’t think this is the issue here, because the PC’s know they’re pretty screwed and consider their plan to be the worst possible except for all others they’ve considered. (As a GM, I do see outs they have not considered, but I have the benefit of perfect information.)

[Serian]

Give them a way out that they have to work for. It doesn't matter if it doesn't (yet) exist on your map.
Give your players an option of escape. It might be the hardest fought, grueling, ass-whooping carry-out-your-unconscious-and-dead drag down "We got out with under 5 hit points among the entire group!", but it lets them have some other way to go than to fight to the (Player Characters') death against a perfectly armed and informed opponent.
Maybe there is that sewer drain that was built there by the prior inhabitants/prisoners/whoever that nop one else found ...
Then again, never force them, either. If they want to go out in a blaze of gory (because it is more gory than glory from what you describe), let them do that. Just remember to not back them into a corner of doom with no escape.

[Jenara]

Phin,

Sometimes its the the PC's, either they are too stubborn to accept that sometimes walking away is the greatest victory, plus some players seem to feel that the DM couldn't possibly kill them and they do, trust me. But as you have pointed out death isn't an issue here.

As Serian says, give them a way out, be it one last chance to surrender or an otherwise un-noticed drain. If they refuse to take this, well, don't say you haven't given them a chance.

Capture them, beat them, make them learn a hard lesson, and then allow them some form of escape. You might just find they are a little more humble.

-------------------------------------------

I actually had something similar in a game recently, myself and another player were infiltrating an unknown City, were in disguise and were made by the Local Thieves Guild. The DM had placed a reward, which the guild said, they would collect, unless we paid them 5k GP! If we did that we would be under the Guilds Protection.

So there we are in there Guild Headquarters, a Meat Packing Plant, concrete floors, easy way's to hide the bodies etc, me and my fellow PC want to fight it out. Totally within Character, excellent role playing, but not suited to the situation at the time.

I really felt for the DM, he had set up this ideal situation, a it gave us free reign of the city... Everything we needed. And yet here were these untrusting, stubborn PC's not taking a good thing when it came along.

The end of the story is we bartered, and agreed to do a "job" and pay a lower fee. Yes we probably could have killed the first two, but home advantage, in a place where people go missing from all the time...

Jen.

[SightblinderX]

TPKs happen. I've been in them.

If you feel really guilty you could talk to them out of character before the game about how you have thought things through, rationally, from the enemies perspective.

And/or the enemy may give them one last chance to surrender as slaves or something , because even the perfect attack plan will result in some losses.

[Tempest]

Yeah. I GMed a pretty grim TPK few years back. The group loved their characters, and the campaign, but they made a few stupid mistakes.

One of the party members ended up getting possessed by a demon and systematically wiping the rest of the party out.

My players were all stunned when the game was over, and they were a little mad. But I think they appreciated the game. In eight years of gaming together, it was one of the very rare times that they've ever gotten wiped out like that. It keeps other games from getting stagnant.

I imagine your players appreciate you as a game master. You sound like you put a lot of effort into your gaming sessions, and that it would be a great fun to be involved in one of your campaigns. I think that some tempers might flare in the short term, but long term, they'll begrudgingly thank you for it.

You kept it real. Without that? It's hard to take games seriously.

[phindar]

Thanks for the kind words. I agree with the general consensus. My players would be more offended if I let them win than letting them lose, and as a player I'm the same way. I want to succeed or fail on my own merits, or by the luck of the dice. But I still feel a little bad for the PC's going into a bad situation, even if it's one that comes up organically in the course of the game (as opposed to a situation I'm putting them through they they couldn't have avoided).

If it goes bad-- and hey, it's 50-50, my players have pulled out some very long shots before-- I think I will just try to keep things moving. Getting captured makes the short term prospects more difficult, but as long as it doesn't derail the game it's really just another situation the PC's have to deal with. And sometimes the players getting a little mad is not a bad thing, because they'll be more invested in getting the NPC's back later.

[Cole]

Yeah that's a tough go eh Phin.

Like yourself I feel guilty after the game sometimes, thinking that I did something to lead them into a bad decision etc.

I've only had one TPK in 26 years of DMing and I remember the feeling I had after the last dice dropped and my players (who played along hellish campaign) bodies sagged with disappointment

They took it OK... but this did look at me like I was their evil step parent and didn't say much to me over the next few days as the thought of starting over with their PC's was just putrid to them.

and again like yourself, better they die on their own merits, then your helping em out and belittling the situation. There is NO pride in a game won without hazard.

The captured idea (if your NPC's would even do that) is a great way out of this, but make sure it's realistic. Would they actually do that or just kill em? You could just randomly kill one PC off to show the seriousness of the situation, while capturing the others.

Hell it was just a few weeks ago in my current campaign we came close to a total party wipe out. I will admit, I put my players in situations that are difficult by nature ( I have a rep of being the "mean" DM). Don't know why

anyway... my best advice is to let it ride.... let the dice stand, no - dm re-rolls etc. If they die, they die! It was meant to be. Don't do them an injustice by letting them out of the corner they have backed themselves into.

good luck!

[jeremylin]

Thanks for the nice article. It is very useful.

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