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So the party is trudging through the deep woods after an excruciatingly bad (read: magically influenced) winter on the way to the local mountain range to re-visit an old castle in the mountains where undead lurk. They thought they'd defeated the head villain a few adventures back, but it wasn't so. Anyway, the massive snows are melting, causing extreme flooding conditions. Deep in the woods, they came across a newly constructed bridge that spans a decently sized flow of snow-melt. It looked like (and the players assumed) that local elves had build it to ease travel in and out of the area to get supplies or what not. While testing the bridge, they were attacked by 8 freshwater trolls. Lots of fun!

Well these damned trolls had to have been blessed by Vaprak himself! To start, in the first few rounds they won initiative each time. Then, they made 2 straight saving throws of 20 (natural 20 rolls) followed by an 18 for a saving throw. Then they managed to roll 17 or higher on each attack for the first two rounds. They were throwing stones. And guess what they rolled on their 1d8 damage rolls? Yup! 8,8,7,8. Max damage 75% of those rolls, almost max the other 25. I actually had the trolls start taunting the PCs, saying: "Great Vaprak guides our aim and protects us from puny morsels like yourselves!".

Eventually they managed to kill the trolls. BUT...they forgot to burn the bodies! They were so rattled and irritated by the taunts that they forgot the fact that while some of the trolls were killed by magical fire (and thus cannot regenerate and remained dead), the others were only partially damaged by fire (flame arrow, flame tongue sword, etc). The rest of the damage was from arrows, sword strikes, etc. So the PCs camp for the night and guess who are all regenerated by that time and come around looking for vengeance?

And they won initiative AGAIN! And they hit every time. And they did max damage or damn near that. Each time. The PCs loved burning them one limb at a time when they finally won! Luckiest damned trolls I've ever seen! They couldn't seem to lose initiative or miss on an attack or fail a saving throw. They all went straight to troll heaven!

The band of orcs (including a leader and a shaman) encountered later on attacking an elven village did not fare so well. The wizard cast lightning bolt (13d6...) taking out no less than 13 of the 16 orcs there, none of whom were able to muster higher than a low single digit saving throw. Not that it would have mattered. The wizard was rolling enough 6's on his d6 that if it were Vegas, he'd have been taken to the back room for a talking to.

The orcs were wiped out in all of 2 rounds.

So sometimes the monsters get crazy lucky and sometimes they get cray unlucky. Tonight, it was one extreme to another!

Would have been funnier if the ORCS were the ones who always had the high rolls and the Trolls all the low ones..

BUt one q.. a 13die fireball from a mage encountering merely orcs?

Garhkal wrote:

Would have been funnier if the ORCS were the ones who always had the high rolls and the Trolls all the low ones..

Oh man, that would have had me rolling on the floor!

BUt one q.. a 13die fireball from a mage encountering merely orcs?

No, he used chain lightning. The player revels in using that spell. If there are lots of opponents (10, 12, 15, etc), he doesn't care if the opponents are kobolds or dragons...he loves chain lightning! I'm starting to think it's his favorite spell of all time.

So they were 11+ level to gain access to chain lightning? And you threw orcs at them??

That's strange.

The orcs were just a random encounter. Some of the evil races are also looking/scouting for new areas that aren't snowed-in/flooding. The orcs were attacking a small village when the PCs arrived, so they just took them out. It wasn't intended as a threat or consequence, more a roleplaying scenario for lack of better words. They were working their way through the mountains when they encountered the distant village and at the time it was under siege by orcs.

Trust me, the real challenge comes when they ascend the mountain, delve into the dungeons beneath the castle, and encounter the (20th level) lich who is causing the problems in the area, along with his death knight servant, ghosts, a few vampires, etc.

But remember too, just because they're high level (10th-13th mix), doesn't mean they can't encounter weaker opponents any more than weaker PCs cannot encounter monsters that are too tough for them. If the wizard wants to waste a spell like chain lighting on orcs, he's the one that has to deal with it when he wishes he still had it later on for the tougher monsters.

Grated, though, there were 36 orcs in the encounter and their thinking was - just take these orcs out as fast as possible so none get away. And it was the first encounter of the day so it wasn't the worst idea I've see. But oh, they better be prepared to conserve spells once inside that dungeon!

That is true, i am a big proponent of what they get, is dependent on where they go, not what level they are..
BUT i still find it strange that a group of that level, would enter an area where orcs are..

Not sure why you find that strange. Why would it be strange for any level group to encounter orcs? Keep in mind, there are bands of all sorts of humanoids all over the land looking for shelter, for food, for places to pillage, etc. The chances of encountering some of them are pretty high. I'm not seeing why group level would have any influence on that. Remember, this encounter was more of a random-ish encounter that came about as a result of the events in the world, i.e. it's part of the back-story. It really wasn't intended as a challenge (wasn't much of one anyway ). It was more a quick scenario to punctuate the drudgery of a cross-country trip and to give the PCs a chance to interact with the villagers and build bonds. I'd call it more a roleplaying moment than combat, even though "combat" took place. More like slaughter, really.

Halaster-Blackcloak wrote: Well these damned trolls had to have been blessed by Vaprak himself! To start, in the first few rounds they won initiative each time. Then, they made 2 straight saving throws of 20 (natural 20 rolls) followed by an 18 for a saving throw. Then they managed to roll 17 or higher on each attack for the first two rounds. They were throwing stones. And guess what they rolled on their 1d8 damage rolls? Yup! 8,8,7,8. Max damage 75% of those rolls, almost max the other 25.
So the PCs camp for the night and guess who are all regenerated by that time and come around looking for vengeance?

And they won initiative AGAIN! And they hit every time. And they did max damage or damn near that. Each time. The PCs loved burning them one limb at a time when they finally won! Luckiest damned trolls I've ever seen! They couldn't seem to lose initiative or miss on an attack or fail a saving throw. They all went straight to troll heaven!

Man, it seems unreal that the rolls would turn out so well in the trolls favor on TWO separate combats. I've heard of incredibly good or bad sets of rolls during one particular combat on the boards before, but not where the pattern sustained into multiple combats, like in this case with the trolls.
Off the topic, but this is the second post where you mentioned "magically influenced" weather. Is that Lich that your party is going to meet responsible for it? If not, what is causing the irregular weather if you don't mind me asking?

No, the magically controlled winter weather was caused by a tribe of frost giants in the last adventure. They had found an artifact called the Crystal of Eternal Winter and were using it to spread - well - eternal winter on the world! The PCs defeated them and with the help of a summoned phoenix destroyed the artifact. Now, in the current adventure, they're finding undead turning up once more and have traced their origin back to the place and villain they thought they'd defeated several adventures ago. Second time is not going to be a charm!

garhkal wrote:So they were 11+ level to gain access to chain lightning? And you threw orcs at them??

That's strange.

See this is the thing though right. As a DM you're supposed to provide a challenge to make it appropriate for the players levels. YET in a realistic world, this cannot happen all the time. If the player went through this area before as (Hal indicated), and these orcs were there when the players were 3rd or 4th level, and these orcs in this encounter or didn't get killed off the first time, then they would still be there when the PC's were 15th level etc.

MY worlds are open sandbox's. Yet everything the PC's encounter that survive or they don't run into stay in the ever evolving world. My PC's have gone out of their way to go back for vengeance to areas they haven't been to in years. (Real time years). There is no reason that a group of kobolds would go from 1st level to match their 10th level advancement right. Maybe their traps got better, maybe a new leader, but realistically that group either got wiped out by something else (DM savy here) or they are STILL the same ol group of Kobolds.

However, with all that said, they are NO CHALLENGE and 0 XP would have been handed out I hope Halaster

Cole wrote:

garhkal wrote:So they were 11+ level to gain access to chain lightning? And you threw orcs at them??

That's strange.

See this is the thing though right. As a DM you're supposed to provide a challenge to make it appropriate for the players levels. YET in a realistic world, this cannot happen all the time. If the player went through this area before as (Hal indicated), and these orcs were there when the players were 3rd or 4th level, and these orcs in this encounter or didn't get killed off the first time, then they would still be there when the PC's were 15th level etc.

Which is generally what i do.. Sand box things, so what the area's known for, is what the party gets, no matter their level (or class make up).. But generally i've seen groups once they get up in levels, NOT bother going to those areas known for 'lower hd foes'..

Cole wrote:

See this is the thing though right. As a DM you're supposed to provide a challenge to make it appropriate for the players levels. YET in a realistic world, this cannot happen all the time. If the player went through this area before as (Hal indicated), and these orcs were there when the players were 3rd or 4th level, and these orcs in this encounter or didn't get killed off the first time, then they would still be there when the PC's were 15th level etc.

Bingo! The world lives and breathes, and things happen independently of the PCs.

MY worlds are open sandbox's. Yet everything the PC's encounter that survive or they don't run into stay in the ever evolving world. My PC's have gone out of their way to go back for vengeance to areas they haven't been to in years. (Real time years). There is no reason that a group of kobolds would go from 1st level to match their 10th level advancement right. Maybe their traps got better, maybe a new leader, but realistically that group either got wiped out by something else (DM savy here) or they are STILL the same ol group of Kobolds.

Vengeance is always the best motivator!

However, with all that said, they are NO CHALLENGE and 0 XP would have been handed out I hope Halaster

No xp there! Just a quick, fun kill, some roleplaying, and on to the next day.

Garhkal wrote:

Which is generally what i do.. Sand box things, so what the area's known for, is what the party gets, no matter their level (or class make up).. But generally i've seen groups once they get up in levels, NOT bother going to those areas known for 'lower hd foes'..

I tend to see that too, unless they are the only ones available to deal with the problem, or they want vengeance for some wrong. But in this case it was just randomly wandering orcs (dictated by circumstances in the world) and their paths crossed.